What is your favorite F35 characteristic? :)

SJX

SJX

Veteran
What is your favorite F35 characteristic? Choose only 1. Even if I love the global shutter, high lights and colors my favorite characteristic is the skins. Almost all cameras new or old make ugly skins. Video skins. Plastic skins. Digital skins. F35 skins is awesome. What is your favorite F35 characteristic?
 
One that probably won't get a lot of love, but is actually a good thing at times: weight. I love that it is heavy. Makes for the best looking handheld footage, not shakes, only rocking and what not. Also, the weight forces me to be more deliberate. I kind of like that.
 
James0b57 said:
One that probably won't get a lot of love, but is actually a good thing at times: weight. I love that it is heavy. Makes for the best looking handheld footage, not shakes, only rocking and what not. Also, the weight forces me to be more deliberate. I kind of like that.
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I Love the Color and noise pattern, But the weight benefits me a lot actually. On small projects i work on i usually get the modern smaller cameras, the red´s alexa mini´s or sony f55 or even fs7 as the choice is unfortunately not always mine, but for saving money the camera packages are surrounded by inferior gear, tripods, dollys, heads for much smaller cameras, so often i end up overweight when the camera it built up and things gets wobbly. But when i have my F35 with all the gear i have for it, i cant use these lighter garbage equipment to begin with and i have to have good Heads and tripods, tracks, cranes and so on, so the things i shoot with my camera is mostly more stable, same goes for the PL-mount, if the camera can use another mount with cheaper lenses, i will get those lenses eventually because budget ran out and so on.
 
Potis said:
I Love the Color and noise pattern, But the weight benefits me a lot actually. On small projects i work on i usually get the modern smaller cameras, the red´s alexa mini´s or sony f55 or even fs7 as the choice is unfortunately not always mine, but for saving money the camera packages are surrounded by inferior gear, tripods, dollys, heads for much smaller cameras, so often i end up overweight when the camera it built up and things gets wobbly. But when i have my F35 with all the gear i have for it, i cant use these lighter garbage equipment to begin with and i have to have good Heads and tripods, tracks, cranes and so on, so the things i shoot with my camera is mostly more stable, same goes for the PL-mount, if the camera can use another mount with cheaper lenses, i will get those lenses eventually because budget ran out and so on.
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Similar situations happen to me and my Alexa. People want the Alexa look but don't want to pay for the gear that goes around it. They try to cheap out on the gear. I normally put my foot down and say either the camera has the right support or they will get my Sony instead. Again agreed about the E-mount. With the Sony people try to rent the cheapest glass they can because the E-mount will allow. With the Alexa, being PL only they can't really do that since you can't find the cheap PLs like Xeens etc everywhere. So you normally end up with at least Ultras. That's a good side effect of a PL mount.

The best thing with the F35 for me has to be those colors. I lust after it constantly. Even having the Alexa.
 
Why did Sony abandon the color science of the F35 that so many love?

Why isn't it in the Fs7?
 
I can't say I 'prefer' the F35's colours over the Alexa's. But I do love both immensely. Things just look 'right' out of the box.

It's a crying shame that Sony weren't able to (or chose not to) port it over to their newer cameras when they moved to CMOS sensors.

I'm not sure I understand or could isolate a singular characteristic of the camera, outside of the 'image'. The way it handles motion, the colour response and smoothness with which the highlights roll off.
 
JPNola said:
Why did Sony abandon the color science of the F35 that so many love?

Why isn't it in the Fs7?
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The F35 has a striped CCD sensor and completely different color filters (instead of a Bayer CMOS sensor). The combination of this specific CCD sensor, color filters, and the fact that a Bayer pattern is not used (no deBayering needed) results in better color separation and the specific look that works so well. The F65 has great color too, and its color filters are on the VENICE, which to my eyes has the best color from Sony yet, + it looks like Sony will use the VENICE filters + color science on future cameras, all the way down to the A7S III level.
 
Grug said:
I can't say I 'prefer' the F35's colours over the Alexa's. But I do love both immensely. Things just look 'right' out of the box.

It's a crying shame that Sony weren't able to (or chose not to) port it over to their newer cameras when they moved to CMOS sensors.

I'm not sure I understand or could isolate a singular characteristic of the camera, outside of the 'image'. The way it handles motion, the colour response and smoothness with which the highlights roll off.
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To be honest I do prefer the F35 colors over my Alexa. I also prefer the F35 motion. The highlights are a toss. Where the Alexa is better over the F35 is overall DR, in anything low light and workflow. The Arri name definitely helps things too. But in the end of the day it's hard to say the Alexa is better than the F35 when considering all. Like you say both are immensely lovely. The Arri is a much easier sell though and I would think makes me more money. But one day I still want to have a F35 too.
 
jcs said:
The F35 has a striped CCD sensor and completely different color filters (instead of a Bayer CMOS sensor). The combination of this specific CCD sensor, color filters, and the fact that a Bayer pattern is not used (no deBayering needed) results in better color separation and the specific look that works so well. The F65 has great color too, and its color filters are on the VENICE, which to my eyes has the best color from Sony yet, + it looks like Sony will use the VENICE filters + color science on future cameras, all the way down to the A7S III level.
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In my opinion the Venice doesn't have as much mojo as the F35, and the F65 never had any. If Sony is using the F65 color filters in the Venice they really did some magic with the rest of the camera. It looks way better than the F65 in every way. But as far as matching or beating the F35 I don't think it's possible with CMOS bayer sensors. Like you say yourself the F35 fantastic image is a combination of many things. CCD is one of them. CMOS will not completely do it. But the Venice is second only to F35 in the history of Sony cameras. Talking looks and mojo.
 
Sttratos said:
In my opinion the Venice doesn't have as much mojo as the F35, and the F65 never had any. If Sony is using the F65 color filters in the Venice they really did some magic with the rest of the camera. It looks way better than the F65 in every way. But as far as matching or beating the F35 I don't think it's possible with CMOS bayer sensors. Like you say yourself the F35 fantastic image is a combination of many things. CCD is one of them. CMOS will not completely do it. But the Venice is second only to F35 in the history of Sony cameras. Talking looks and mojo.
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Two examples of great color from the F65: Oblivion and Lucy. What are your favorites for the F35?
 
jcs said:
Two examples of great color from the F65: Oblivion and Lucy. What are your favorites for the F35?
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F65 was such a bare look, it paired well with vintage lenses in "Ex Machina". Did well in Oblivion too. I didn't care for Lucy's look. "Annihilation" was another good F65 film. "Cafe Society" and "Wonder Wheel" are pretty bold and unafraid of the digital look, and I quite like them in that sense. The F65 is a pretty neutral image, that can adapt, but getting it there is a whole extra process.

What surprises me about the F35, and I have heard you all say it for years, but this camera gets something right, as soon as you look through the lens. Makes me feel free to capture images in the moment, and not have to keep thinking about how I will "correct" or develop it in post. That is quite liberating!

I have an A7s I have just started doing side by sides. There are a couple things I noticed in little I have done, and that is the purity of color channels. Into blow out, it looks like all of the channels clip close to the same time, so there is little or no odd yellow or coloring right before clipping (or at least the color channels desaturate enough in the highlights to look more natural). But also, seeing a few objects of different colors near each other, there is good separation and distinct colors, but in the A7sII footage, there was a weird tint or smearing of the color information. At first glance, the two cameras don't look drastically different, and in that sense the A7 was impressive, but the F35 is without a doubt the superior image. And after using the Scarlet MX, I almost feel there is little difference between Red 4K and F35 HD in sharpness.

My favorite F35 work is Mac's, but Flowers of war shows off the more analogue feel of the camera. I don't think any of the other cameras would have maintained that feel with the lighting and set design used. I didn't like Reel Steel style, but have to admit it looks amazing. That team did an awesome job!

I may go watch "Youth in Revolt".

"Apocalypto" is up there as well, even though that is Genesis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSw5l5jMnPM
 
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James0b57 said:
F65 was such a bare look, it paired well with vintage lenses in "Ex Machina". Did well in Oblivion too. I didn't care for Lucy's look. "Annihilation" was another good F65 film. "Cafe Society" and "Wonder Wheel" are pretty bold and unafraid of the digital look, and I quite like them in that sense. The F65 is a pretty neutral image, that can adapt, but getting it there is a whole extra process.

What surprises me about the F35, and I have heard you all say it for years, but this camera gets something right, as soon as you look through the lens. Makes me feel free to capture images in the moment, and not have to keep thinking about how I will "correct" or develop it in post. That is quite liberating!

I have an A7s I have just started doing side by sides. There are a couple things I noticed in little I have done, and that is the purity of color channels. Into blow out, it looks like all of the channels clip close to the same time, so there is little or no odd yellow or coloring right before clipping (or at least the color channels desaturate enough in the highlights to look more natural). But also, seeing a few objects of different colors near each other, there is good separation and distinct colors, but in the A7sII footage, there was a weird tint or smearing of the color information. At first glance, the two cameras don't look drastically different, and in that sense the A7 was impressive, but the F35 is without a doubt the superior image. And after using the Scarlet MX, I almost feel there is little difference between Red 4K and F35 HD in sharpness.

My favorite F35 work is Mac's, but Flowers of war shows off the more analogue feel of the camera. I don't think any of the other cameras would have maintained that feel with the lighting and set design used. I didn't like Reel Steel style, but have to admit it looks amazing. That team did an awesome job!

I may go watch "Youth in Revolt".

"Apocalypto" is up there as well, even though that is Genesis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSw5l5jMnPM
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Looks like the A camera for Annihilation was Red? https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2798920/technical?ref_=tt_dt_spec
Red Weapon Dragon, Panavision G Series and Ultra Panatar Lenses
Sony CineAlta F65, Panavision Primo, G- and T-Series Lenses
Sony CineAlta PMW-F55, Panavision Primo, G- and T-Series Lenses
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Wonder Wheel trailer and Apocalypto looked pretty good.

Regarding color separation, Fuji has teamed up with Samsung to make image sensors with better color performance: https://www.cinema5d.com/isocell-plus-samsung-teams-up-with-fujifilm-to-improve-image-sensors/

Regarding Red 4K (Bayer) vs. F35 for detail: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?318627-F35-Beginners-What-is-the-sensor . The F35 sensor is fully oversampled to produce alias-free HD (a 5760x2160 sensor), whereas the 4K Bayer sensor is undersampled to produce 4K (can only produce 2.7K before aliasing). Even more important, the F35 sensor is averaging 6 pixels into a final output pixel (supersampling) with no interpolation. Not only does this create very clean images, it's also better color because colors aren't interpolated from other colors: e.g. R pixels created from G and B pixels (Bayer grid), and thus no cross talk = more pure colors (can still be some cross talk from color filters to sensor, see Fuji-Samsung link above on how they are trying to improve).
 
jcs said:
Wonder Wheel trailer and Apocalypto looked pretty good.
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Agreed. Vittorio Storaro is so good. So many older cinematographers want their digital work to look like their film work, but Storaro goes full on into digital.

jcs said:
Regarding color separation, Fuji has teamed up with Samsung to make image sensors with better color performance: https://www.cinema5d.com/isocell-plus-samsung-teams-up-with-fujifilm-to-improve-image-sensors/
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This is exciting!

jcs said:
Regarding Red 4K (Bayer) vs. F35 for detail: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?318627-F35-Beginners-What-is-the-sensor . The F35 sensor is fully oversampled to produce alias-free HD (a 5760x2160 sensor), whereas the 4K Bayer sensor is undersampled to produce 4K (can only produce 2.7K before aliasing). Even more important, the F35 sensor is averaging 6 pixels into a final output pixel (supersampling) with no interpolation. Not only does this create very clean images, it's also better color because colors aren't interpolated from other colors: e.g. R pixels created from G and B pixels (Bayer grid), and thus no cross talk = more pure colors (can still be some cross talk from color filters to sensor, see Fuji-Samsung link above on how they are trying to improve).
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So crazy. Over engineering at the sensor level is awesome. In a weird way, all of the bayer patter 8K cameras are following a similar line of thought, but the emphasis is still too much on resolution as a selling spec. But I have always felt resolution was the beast we had to get out of the way before we could get back to finesse and quality. Glad we are coming back around.
 
James0b57 said:
really?

I would have thought that the director/dp duo would have stuck with the F65 as A cam. Also, at Cinegear, Sony featured "Annihilation" as a Sony feature, and had the DP as a guest to introduce the film. Would be silly if F65 was not A cam.
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They typically list the A camera first, could be a mistake?

Clarification on the F35 "6 pixels" => 1 pixels. It's really 6 photosites into 1 pixel. Or two RGB stripe-strips first averaged into one then 'stacked' into an RGB pixel (where RGB = just one location). That said, most displays are composed of RGB subpixels, so the F35 photosites are similar to a typical display for playback.

It will be great to get away from Bayer sensors. Sony was working with InVisage to produce a new Quantum Film sensor. Then Apple bought InVisage: https://petapixel.com/2017/10/30/apple-acquires-camera-sensor-startup-behind-quantumfilm-report/ . Perhaps Sony has something else (better) up their sleeves.

Better sensors for color are indeed coming now that we've gotten resolution sufficiently high. AI compression will massively reduce storage as the stored data will be effectively resolution-less. Meaning any resolution can be rendered after compression (really deconstruction). The trade off is high compute requirements (won't be an issue in the future). Example advances for stills (more work for interframe video to come): https://arxiv.org/pdf/1705.05823.pdf
 
'Lucy' has 3 big hitters in its specs...not sure how much is "some scenes", but I wonder if anyone during the meeting(s) brought up anything about color or skintones when discussing the combination of systems, and I wonder why all three cameras were used:

Lucy.jpg
 
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