GH4 What is the equivalent to the C100's WDR for the GH4?

C

Cosimo Bullo

Veteran
I love shooting with the GH4. Love the 4k res, the viewfinder, the size.

But so far I'd have to say our C100 - a camera MUCH less fun to shoot with - 'looks' better and is producing a file to the ninja that is more usable than the GH4 4k to 1080.

Still early days with the GH4 and I'm sure there is much more to dig out of the menus.
 
Cosimo Bullo said:
But so far I'd have to say our C100 - a camera MUCH less fun to shoot with - 'looks' better and is producing a file to the ninja that is more usable than the GH4 4k to 1080
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Can you post some frame-grabs to illustrate what you like or dislike with the image each camera generates.

It's really hard to have a civil discussion if all we have to go by is opinion without something to illustrate the issues at hand.

Thanks.
 
Well, Macgregor's thread shows some of the issues.

My suggestion for WDR is to change the Photo Profile to Portrait or Cine-D, take Sharpening, Contrast and Saturation all the way down (and maybe NR too), go into Highlights / Shadows, take Shadows all the way up, go to i.Dynamic, turn it to Normal, turn ISO to 200, then expose a bit more to the left than you are used to, then use Neat Video in post.

Then test to make sure that what you're trying to shoot doesn't have bad color processing issues. I will post some examples of these tonight.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
bruceallen said:
Well, Macgregor's thread shows some of the issues.

My suggestion for WDR is to change the Photo Profile to Portrait or Cine-D, take Sharpening, Contrast and Saturation all the way down (and maybe NR too), go into Highlights / Shadows, take Shadows all the way up, go to i.Dynamic, turn it to Normal, turn ISO to 200, then expose a bit more to the left than you are used to, then use Neat Video in post.

Then test to make sure that what you're trying to shoot doesn't have bad color processing issues. I will post some examples of these tonight.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
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Hi Bruce,
Is this the conclusion from your weekend tests? It seems a little more detailed and conclusive than what was previously posted. Looking forward to your examples, especially grading an image that flat out of the camera.
Many thanks.
 
SuperSet said:
Hi Bruce,
Is this the conclusion from your weekend tests? It seems a little more detailed and conclusive than what was previously posted. Looking forward to your examples, especially grading an image that flat out of the camera.
Many thanks.
Click to expand...

I don't really have a conclusion yet. Macgregor posted what we shot as some initial findings (within a few hours of us doing the tests!). I really need to shoot, test, try new stuff, shoot more, etc. Every time I get a setting I think I like and use it, I see a new weird color issue.

I'm posting a bunch of picture profile tests I did later in the day to:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bx36eGbmhPWuMHhfUlpIODJwT1U&usp=sharing
I'm still updating it but it's there if you want to look at it.

This is just my own personal investigation to try to figure out whether I was hallucinating or not when I saw green stuff in the highlights with warm color tone subject matter (red channel color clipping I guess).

I haven't yet found a combination of settings that completely gets rid of weird color issues in the highlights, as well as a kind of banding between red and yellow further below. They are not very serious... just don't expose your actor's skin tones there!

I'm hoping we can push Panasonic to do a firmware fix (or release a mode that just outputs the sensor's data in a more un-molested form via the 4K HDMI).

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
It's starting to sound like were going to need to go hdmi out to an external recorder, or use the brick to recorder to get the most out of this camera, I mean I guess we kind of knew that to begin with, but it's disappointing to see very limited dynamic range, and weird color clipping. I'm guessing with a 10 bit 4:2:2 we could expose for highlights then push the shadows and mid channel to squeeze a little more range out of this cam. But that's guessing of course.
 
Even though there have been tests that show less than desirable dynamic range and apparent greenish coloring in the highlights, there have been tenfold other GH4 videos that look really great and don't seem to have glaring problems in the highlights.
This isn't like those first days of seeing AF100 footage where it was very apparent that the camera had problems with colored highlights.

I have seen enough footage to know I will be happy when the GH4 gets into my hands in a few days (shipping to me right now). I have been a very satisfied owner of a GH1, 2 and 3. The DR is apparently better than those models, and I have no reason to doubt Panasonic's claim of this.

Will the YAGH or the Shogun improve this camera? Yes. But the 4k going to the SD card is already staggering for the price and, in terms of clarity, DR, and other features (focus peaking, zebras, etc.), I just don't know what there is to be upset about.
 
I agree, dvbrother!

I mean, its my tests which are showing the highlight issues... and I'm not planning on selling either of my GH4s at the moment!

RED cameras also had a lot of issues, but they were quite useful. Everything has issues.

I do think that the interesting part is that they are basically color matrix bugs... which means that Panasonic could fix them!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
bruceallen said:
I do think that the interesting part is that they are basically color matrix bugs... which means that Panasonic could fix them!
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True. It occurs to me that Cinelike-D and Cinelike-V were designed by the video camera division, not the stills division. And they were originally implemented in CCD cameras, not CMOS.
Dropping them into CMOS cameras containing a sensor that was joint designed by the stills and video division may have lead to colorimetry issues. Especially if they hurried to make their release date.
 
Cosimo Bullo said:
I love shooting with the GH4. Love the 4k res, the viewfinder, the size.

But so far I'd have to say our C100 - a camera MUCH less fun to shoot with - 'looks' better and is producing a file to the ninja that is more usable than the GH4 4k to 1080.

Still early days with the GH4 and I'm sure there is much more to dig out of the menus.
Click to expand...

4k to 1080 you say?

Also you have to remember that the C100 and C300 are super 35 4K sensors.
 
It's funny how history repeats itself. One of the big issues with the GH3 when it first appeared were skintones. Thing was, everybody wanted this camera to shoot log, and it wasn't designed for that. As soon as people stopped winding down all the settings, great looking footage started popping up. This camera is also not designed to shoot log (although we get a little halfway house with the cine gamma settings) but already people are shooting at -5 all settings, although I can't see why - it's not like it shoots raw. I seriously doubt there are colorimetry problems with this camera, same as I seriously doubt if it's limited to an 8 stop dynamic range, and as we've seen already, in talented hands, footage looks great. Be happy!
 
But the GH4 can output 4k 10 bit 4:2:2 so it really should have a real log mode. 10 bit 4:2:2 AND log go hand in hand.
 
mr bill said:
It's funny how history repeats itself. One of the big issues with the GH3 when it first appeared were skintones. Thing was, everybody wanted this camera to shoot log, and it wasn't designed for that. As soon as people stopped winding down all the settings, great looking footage started popping up. This camera is also not designed to shoot log (although we get a little halfway house with the cine gamma settings) but already people are shooting at -5 all settings, although I can't see why - it's not like it shoots raw. I seriously doubt there are colorimetry problems with this camera, same as I seriously doubt if it's limited to an 8 stop dynamic range, and as we've seen already, in talented hands, footage looks great. Be happy!
Click to expand...

theres a purpose for putting the settings down. and along with it, the way the camera is exposed has to also change.
currently I dont think its a huge benefit with 8bit 420. I'd like to see a 4:2:2 10 bit capture from this thing with all settings down.
 
mr bill said:
What for? It isn't a log camera..
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Are you kidding?
it may not add DR but it will definitely help grading and making the image curve less harsh.
its the same concept as log. Spreading as much information and data on the whole stream. the only difference is, log is the unadulterated debayer from the sensor data.
why push sharpness down? So it doesnt look artificial
Why bring saturation down? So the colors dont clip
contrast? So its easier to grade in post.
With 10 bit 4:2:2 u get more information and flexibility in post.
 
You appear to have missed my point entirely. And trust me, I understand what log is and how that works.
 
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