What is my problem? (DVX image quality)

M

magicdavek

Well-known member
I love my DVX. I've used it in 60i and 24p with much success. Here's my problem. The other night, I wanted to show the family some video I shot of them that day. These are obviously informal - no special lighting. Some outdoors on a hazy day, the rest indoors.

When I turned on the TV, A&E was doing a Rocky marathon, and Rocky III was on. The kids wanted to watch it, so we did. During commercials, I played my DVX footage. Ugh. Comparing the properly lit 35mm film from Rocky to my "16mm look" without special lighting really threw me. I know with a properly lit scene my shots would have looked better. However, even the outdoor shots didn't seem to compare to Rocky's outdoor scenes - not even close. The difference between Rocky and my DVX shots are like the difference between a PD170 and an old shoulder held VHS family-cam.

My progressive shots were in factory F6, progressive advanced 24p. The next day I did the same shot four times in a well lit kitchen by the sliding glass door (lotsa light) of my daughter holding the rabbit and tried standard Cinegamma, Cine-D and Cine-V and none of us in the family could detect much difference on our 19 inch TV. The footage looks too distant, not very sharp (I manually focused the best i could - only the extreme close ups looked really sharp) and not particularly vibrant colors. Rocky had vibrant colors! I know I wasn't getting a 35mm equivalent camera when I got my DVX, but I'm wondering if I'm getting the best 24p picture I can get. One fear I have is that I've got the iris closed too much to minimize the zebra stripes. As I darken the picture, the colors get muted, right? My footage looks like those 16mm nature films I remember seeing as a kid in the 1970s on public television.

Any suggestions? I haven't played with any menu settings beyond the Cinegamma, I mostly adjust the external settings (i.e., iris, focus, shutter speed, white balance).
 
Re: What is my problem? (DVX image quality)

Show us the Money, Magic!!! Export a frame from your NLE and throw it over here. Your images could very well be underexposed, but how the hell can we tell??? Help US help YOU!!! ;D

BTW, your DVX image will never look like Rocky 3. Sorry for the disapointment. Your actors can surely be better though... ;D (I'm not sure who I hate more, Sly or that ridiculous commie fighter)

The main Problem i can anticipate is that you have a shot with a latitude that is wider than your DVX. How does this work? You have bright and dark extremes that fall over the range your camera can reproduce (Brights too bright and darks too dark). So when you shoot your stuff without lighting (Not without light, but without lighting!) you have to underexpose some areas of your image to control the blowing up... So that can mute the colors and give you a dull look. Use the marker and expose accordingly. For instance: Caucasian skin should give you a 60% reading on the marker. You can raise color saturation messing with your scene file settings menu. But how can you make a wide latitude image fit in your camera sensitivity? You can't. So either you light your darker areas or you shade the lighter. (Lighting!). Film cameras have a wider latitude range, but they also have severe limits big films overcome with propper lighting.
 
Re: What is my problem? (DVX image quality)

Could you elaborate on the word "marker"? I am ont aware of such a marker exist. Do you mean Zebra?

I do not own an external monitor, therefore all my shots have been judged by the lcd display on the camera and all my test footage seems to be under exposed while it looked good on the lcd. :(

Thx
 
Re: What is my problem? (DVX image quality)

[quote author=taubkin link=board=Events;num=1096337865;start=0#1 date=09/27/04 at 20:28:22]Show us the Money, Magic!!! Export a frame from your NLE and throw it over here. Your images could very well be underexposed, but how the hell can we tell??? Help US help YOU!!! ;D

BTW, your DVX image will never look like Rocky 3. Sorry for the disapointment. Your actors can surely be better though... ;D (I'm not sure who I hate more, Sly or that ridiculous commie fighter)[/quote]

I'm at work now, but maybe tonight I'll get a chance to post a few frames.
Rocky's opponent in III was Mr. T. The commie you referred to was Rocky IV, which I haven't seen.

As I said, I knew I wasn't getting a 35mm film camera. It's just that the contrast that night between the TV movie and my clips was so much more than I would have expected. By contrast, in my 60i shots, it's hard to tell the DVX from the local TV station's field footage.

And yes, could taubkin or someone else explain the "marker" thing.
 
Re: What is my problem? (DVX image quality)

[quote author=taubkin link=board=Events;num=1096337865;start=0#1 date=09/27/04 at 20:28:22]
You have bright and dark extremes that fall over the range your camera can reproduce (Brights too bright and darks too dark). So when you shoot your stuff without lighting (Not without light, but without lighting!) you have to underexpose some areas of your image to control the blowing up... So that can mute the colors and give you a dull look. [/quote]

I get the impression that something like this is going on. But as I said, I'll post some frames.
 
Re: What is my problem? (DVX image quality)

You can set your sebras to 100%, 80% and the "Marker". The marker function like a spotmeter. that is: It doesn't provide you with any zebras, instead, it shows you a small square (positioned on the center of your screen slightly to the left) and a percentage reading in the lower left corner. What is that? It is saying that inside the square, the average light signal is of XX%. That is most useful, because now it does not simply tell you if and where you have overexposed footage, but it tells you the exact exposition for the exact region you point your camera to. So you have an instrument to tell you if your image is good or crappy right there. For instance: Even if things seem bright on my LCD, I am not sure they actually are looking that bright (Signal-wise) so I point the marker and discover: it should be a very bright spot, but I'm only getting 60%. I really should open my IRIS a bit. OR It should be black here, but I'm getting 15%... Maybe I should close... Oh, but that will make the brights in the other side of the screen too dark as well... So I better lower my pedestal... etc, etc, etc...
 
Re: What is my problem? (DVX image quality)

Thanks taubkin...I'm not aware of such a useful feature available.

Keith
 
Re: What is my problem? (DVX image quality)

I'm going to let Sebras in. Not going to edit. Sorry... ;D
 
Re: What is my problem? (DVX image quality)

I had to do too much last night and couldn't post the frame grabs.

Rocky may be color corrected. But there were at least two obvious features that differed from my DVX clips - the vividness of colors and the overall sharpness or crispness of the image. My image looks very crisp in 60i, but almost a tad blurry in 24p. I tried my best with manual focus, and am not sure if that has anything to do with it.

Back on the comparison to broadcast - I caught about 5 minutes of a rerun of Cheers last night (I never liked that show). Much to my surprise, it looked more like the DVX than Rocky III. I would almost guess that Cheers was done on 16mm, not 35mm. But who knows.

I'll try to get the grabs up in the next night or two.
 
Re: What is my problem? (DVX image quality)

taubkin,

Thanks for that explanation of the marker. I've never used it. I haven't delved much into the menu adjustments yet.
 
Re: What is my problem? (DVX image quality)

[quote author=taubkin link=board=Events;num=1096337865;start=0#5 date=09/28/04 at 19:13:36]So I better lower my pedestal... etc, etc, etc...[/quote]

What is exactly done by lowering the pedestal? and could you explain the etc's ;D?
i mean, this is going in the achieving a filmic look direction...
is there any good read out there about those little words like "pedestal" or "knee", since i believe i could save me a lot of postpro trouble, if i only found someone who explains those to me... :)
 
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