What if?

doondoon

doondoon

Well-known member
What if someone cut off (like a brain surgeon) the fixed lens on the HVX and then...
affixed a 35mm mount? Something that would work nicely with some really nice super speed primes (or something like that)?

I'm sure it's possible. I'm sure there is more to it as well... but someones got the technical and mechanical chops to pull this off. The question is WHO! And I wonder how much that'd cost?

I COULD use the G35 or mini-35... but that's a lot of glass, too much light loss and is sort of a pain in the ass for handheld. The camera ends up looking like a bazooka.:undecided
 
I liked this thread better earlier A.M. when John Huston rightly had it locked! :)

This is NOT aimed at the poster of the original message, just my frustration in general with what I feel is a misguided trend.

Folks, the camera isn't even on the street yet, can't everyone wait a bit before trying to modify and hack it or even discuss these ridiculous extremes?

I mean, what's wrong with the camera as is??? Granted the lens won't fill the frame with a hummingbird at 50 yards, nor show 90 degrees FOV with zero distortion, and if you need that, then look elsewhere.

Seriously. Lens not wide enough, not telephoto enough, doesn't focus close enough? Add the appropriate Century adaptor. It's a $6,000.00 camera, for crying out loud, with a lens matched to the chips and designed to best serve it! Good gosh, at least you never need worry about dusk on the chips, etc.

Enjoy it, revel in the fantastic dollar value and possiblility for creative expression. if you need more than this, get a different camera, or rent a Varicam and put the lens of choice on it.

And don't get me started on the whole 35mm adaptor discussions... you don't want to know what I really think about that.

Spreading the Christmas Day Cheer...

Jim Arthurs
 
Hey Jim, I understand your frustration, but the issue is that these cameras have come down to a level that gadget geeks are as interested as working professionals. Look at how many things geeks try to load Linux on. iPods, Xboxen, and Macs. Why? Because they can.

It doesn't have to make sense or actually improve it as much as the fact that it can be done to throw up a blog and create more geek pron. Granted there aren't as many of these folks into the HVX as the iPod, but far more than geeks that are into the F950 or Varicam.

From the viewpoint of a videographer or filmmaker, it does seem ridiculous. Just buy the camera you need. From a geek and enthusiast viewpoint, what can be hacked...who cares why.

I also think the HVX is like bait for gadget geeks. Its system is open enough, and the price difference without P2 cards is great enough that it begs for someone to home-brew some type of recording system.
 
Hmmm. If you look on the site where they modified the FX1E, then I think there's ample evidence that modification isn't just to satisfy some geek's curiosity. If you consider that the 35mm adaptors turn the image upside down and are limited by the camera's original optics, you can see why someone would want to bypass the OEM glass in favor of direct broadcast lenses. Why do you think companies are spending all the R&D money to make 35mm adaptors? Don't knock it just because you don't understand it.
 
Look, I can see everyone's points here... I just can't agree with the logic to take a camera and go to such lengths to make it into something it isn't and wasn't intended to be. And more importantly, to already be hatching these plans when there are less than a dozen or so of these camera's floating around. Of course someone will do it, but does that mean they should?

"Because I can" is a valid reason to do anything, I suppose, but shouldn't be confused with choosing the best means to get to your goal. The effort and expense and time to "mod" a camera would be better spent using the proper tool in the first place, IMO, whether that means a Varicam, HDCAM or film and the proper lens system.

Sorry for the fuss, Santa didn't bring me an HVX this year like I asked, so I'm bumming...

Jim Arthurs
 
I'm not a gadget geek. I'm a professional camera operator/dp... and it's how I make my living. The last film that I shot is up for an academy award. I really care about what I do. It's my passion. If I want to buy a camera and then take the OEM lens off and retro fit it with something that works better for me then that's my business. Why ridicule me for that? Especially on this website in this forum??
Why is this subject so TABOO????
 
It's a valid question.

Doon, it would be interesting to see if something like this could be done.
I imagine it would void the warranty though :)
 
doondoon said:
I'm not a gadget geek. I'm a professional camera operator/dp... and it's how I make my living. The last film that I shot is up for an academy award. I really care about what I do. It's my passion. If I want to buy a camera and then take the OEM lens off and retro fit it with something that works better for me then that's my business. Why ridicule me for that? Especially on this website in this forum??
Why is this subject so TABOO????
Click to expand...

It's not taboo, and I'm not raining on your parade. You can do anything you want with your money and your gear. I just don't see the draw or the advantages of crippling your camera this way. Why do I feel this way? Follow my reasoning, and tell me where I'm wrong.

The moment you do your modification, there's no going back to "normal". No warranty as Steve mentioned, no flexible range of focal lengths, no pulling out the camera and just shooting, and no real resale value down the road. No automatic lens functions, and compatibility with other HVX's in terms of "look". So, your HVX will be useful for a limited number of shooting scenerios, the only two of which I can think of are described below;

1.) What will be your lens choices? Most lenses will be very, very telephoto on the HVX, and softer because your pulling out that tiny area of the 1/3" ccd off of a lens designed for a much bigger target. So, for direct mount lenses, all you can do are extreme telephoto shots. Fine if you're doing wildlife, and heck, maybe you are? If you're work is hummingbirds at 50 yards in broad daylight, then this is the perfect rig.

2.) The only other use would be for a 35mm adaptor, but now you need a hack of a hack to fit inside the HVX shell deep enough to work... did you see how the FX1 looked with its lens gone? Can't just snuggle one of those mini35's up to the proper position based on what I've seen. So now you need to alter the half-baked tool you need to use on your newly altered camera. This just went WAY past my comfort level.

Jim Arthurs
 
Jim-

Yes you're right. the camera will be changed forever. It may however work very well for my purposes. I won't know until I get the damn thing and take a look. If I choose to modify the camera I'll send you some footage.

Happy Holidays
 
doondoon said:
It may however work very well for my purposes. I won't know until I get the damn thing and take a look. If I choose to modify the camera I'll send you some footage.
Click to expand...

Excellent and quite right... if it works for your purposes then that's ALWAYS the best choice you can make.

And I too want to get the "damn thing" in my hand. Boy we agree 110% on that!

Best wishes for the Holiday Season right back at 'ya... and here's hoping we all have cameras soon enough that we COULD modify if we choose to!

Jim Arthurs
 
I find this thread very interesting - with valid points on both sides. It reminds me of the story about the great director Stanley Kubrick and what he did to utilize a Zeiss 50mm f 0.7 lens to shoot scenes that would only be lit by candlelight for the film "Barry Lyndon." He took a Mitchell BNC camera and had it retrofitted to utilize this incredibly fast lens, and the result is unbelievably beautiful. There is a good article here:

http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/sk/ac/len/page1.htm

If making technical changes in the camera works for you, and you don't mind the warranty going out the window, go for it!
 
"...I'm a professional camera operator/dp... and it's how I make my living. The last film that I shot is up for an academy award"

seeing how you mentioned it .. what film is up for a academy award & what was your exact position ?

why not ask one of the camera techs at one of the rental houses that you get your camera's from about the possibility of a lens modifcation to a dvx100/hvx200 or for that matter any hand size video camera ?
i would say if you're willing to pay the $$$$$$$$ somebody will modify it.
 
Just Try It

Just Try It

It is a natural tendency to try to improve on what already exists, especially in the case of a camcorder whose features and benefits are as breathtaking as appears to be the case with the HVX200.

I have been involved with this camera since it landed on this shore, and along with Doug Leighton at Panasonic here in Los Angeles, undertook the production piece that ended up being shot out to film at Laser Pacific, with whom I have worked regularly on a variety of application technologies since the mid 80's. Yuvall's assessment of the camera was cogent, accurate and informed.

Yet I would contend that no technical analysis of the camera's performance at any stage of the production process, especially at this screening of the film-out, could capture the moment of astonishment that followed the last frame of the film on that screen before the house lights came up again.

You could have heard a pin drop in that room, filled to capacity by working professionals in the business (among others) who are accustomed to underwhelming displays of "solutions in search of problems" brought to this industry town by well-meaning technologists who should have spent more time researching their applications and less time promoting them.

This is decidedly not the case with camera. I dare say there were those in that room who felt they were witnessing a bit of history. Doug Jaqua, one of the most knowledgable engineers in post production and now working at Laser's lab, described the device as having great potential and as an empowering tool. This is not faint praise. Doug has seen it all. His comment was carefully considered, and delivered with respect for what we had all witnessed.

I continue to familiarize myself with the camera this Christmas weekend after having provided it to Jim Matlosz, a working Hollywood DP, for a test shoot last Friday. Jim's comments are also worth noting. I am paraphrasing here, but I think you will get the jist of his remarks:

"Just point and shoot with it, Ken. We shot with available light and the results are excellent. The HVX200 represents the latest offering of cameras that have created a new genre of content creation. It's digital cinema certainly, but more specifically it's DV Cinema-possessing a look, feel and power that can stand on it's own."

I can only suggest to this group that working with the camera is its own best recommendation and that understanding the IT workflow that proceeds from it is the best indication of what the future of production and post production holds in store for the filmmaker.
 
doondoon said:
I'm not a gadget geek. I'm a professional camera operator/dp... and it's how I make my living.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean to insinuate that you were a gadget geek. It's just that if in a professional situation, you should just probably rent or buy the actual camera you need. It seems counter productive to modify a camera like this unless you were trying to save money or see if you can do it. The extra cost and voiding the warranty to get a slightly better picture doesn't seem like a great business move.

Well, assuming you were knowledgeable and skilled enough to do this. Hiring someone to do this defeats the purpose (unless someone actually starts doing this mod for cheap enough and warranties their work). Just buy a camera that has exchangeable lenses. Why risk pissing away $6000?

Someone explain what I'm missing.

A. You have a very tight budget so you're trying to get a Varicam out of an HVX...but wait, you're gambling a lot of money and if you yourself can't do it, you'll need to pay someone a lot of money to get it done right.

B. You have a lot of money and view it as an experiment or challenge.

C. You must be the type that loads Linux on random things, or at the very least has done crazy camera modifications before...otherwise why even consider doing this?


:beer:
 
If people want to experiment, let em. That's what makes things get better....or worse. Let those do what they like to do. If they want to hack up a 6,000 cam let em. I'm too much of a puss to ever do anything like that, but I definately do respect people who are always thinking, tinkering, changing, and innovating. How the hell can you knock something like that?
 
yeah I'm down with Slimothy, albeit the handle disconcerting aside. Pushing the boundaries of all tools is always necessary, especially if you want to change the world for good, not profit. Beyond that, amazing how much time y'all have to discuss when you should be writing, shooting, editing....one love
 
Evolve said:
yeah I'm down with Slimothy, albeit the handle. Pushing the boundaries of all tools is always necessary, especially if you want to change the world for good, not profit. Beyond that, amazing how much time y'all have to discuss when you should be writing, shooting, editing....one love
Click to expand...
Yea, no sh it!! I need to finish my sci-fi script. Thanks for the reminder.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top