FS5: What glass Sony or Rokinon

Vultch

Vultch

Well-known member
I am mainly an electronics type guy now shooting video, so sensors, processing etc are my thing, but not glass.

Anyhow I am looking a buying primes now, should I buy the Sony 35mm F1.8 and 50mm F1.8 primes or should I be looking at budget primes, Rokinon / Samyang len kits.

thanks
 
Corporate and documentry stuff, everything from wide open landscapes at sunset to factory interiors, I intend to buy a range of focal lengths. Is Sony glass consumer grade?
 
If you want to shoot corporate and doc stuff, zooms are usually the way to go. Primes imply that you have time as switching lenses eats up a lot of time which is fine for more scripted projects, but when you work fast, you cannot be switching lenses.

I don't believe Samyang makes zooms and Sony lenses tend to only work on Sony cameras. I have a set of Zeiss primes when I need the lovely vibe, but for docs I generally use Canon mount lenses - various Canon zooms, Sigma 18-35 f1.8 and a Tokina 11-16 f2.8.

The thing with Canon vs Sony, is Canon works electronically on most cameras - Sony, Canon, Red, Alexa, BMC, Panasonic, etc... while Sony only works on Sony so if you ever got a different brand of camera, your Sony lenses are useless.

As for Samyang, I had a few in the past but I sold them. They have this overall slight yellow cast that I don't like. Zeiss has much better and pleasing color separation, but they do cost more.
 
I guess the question I should ask is will a Rokinon or similar blow me way compared to a Sony lens
 
Vultch said:
I guess the question I should ask is will a Rokinon or similar blow me way compared to a Sony lens
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Likely not. But the Rokinon primes have a manual iris. Few of the Sony primes do. If I remember correctly the Rokinons also have focus end stop. At least my 12mm Rokinon Cine does. Not sure about the Sony lenses in the price range you are talking about.

A manual iris / manual focus Rokinon will make you a better shooter than will an electronic focus / electronic iris Sony.

Rokinon sells a set of 4 Cine primes for around $2000. The Rokinon primes really are quite a bargain, keeping in mind that it isn't the highest-end glass but "budget" primes quite serviceable for most uses. f/1.5 manual iris, manual focus primes with focus end stop. Available in 3 different lens mounts. I mean, you gotta love that and it is a good thing that Rokinon offers such because no one else is providing manual focus / manual iris fast primes for anywhere near that price. ( Rokinon, Samyung, and Bower are all the same manufacturer. ) Knock Rokinon, I mean Samyung, if you must, but their lenses are putting many people into manual iris / manual focus glass who otherwise would be using electro-glass. And people learning to shoot with infinitely variable manual iris is a good thing. I am all for taking things back from the machines and returning them to the human hand.

Maybe my suggestion to go with Rokinons is daft. Someone else chime in here. I've seen the Rokinon's being used on major reality tv shows and as far as I know no viewer has called in to complain. In all likelihood the Roki's are quite serviceable for Vultch's use.
 
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For corporate and doc work, you should start with one good zoom lens, preferably with autofocus and image stabilization. A lot of people go with the Canon 24-105, or similar, with or without Speed booster. Some people go with one of the two Sony kit lenses.


As others have said, my goal is to buy as few Sony lenses as possible.


I have a set of the Rokinon lenses, and I like them, but especially for filmmaking. The 24 mm lens is soft wide open, but I don't consider this a huge problem. If you decide to go this route, purchase the DS versions. Buy them in either Nikon or Canon mounts.


If you look back on the FS5 and FS7 threads, you will find pages and pages of discussion on this topic. And you will find even more on the FS700 threads.
 
Jim Ritscher said:
For corporate and doc work, you should start with one good zoom lens, preferably with autofocus and image stabilization. A lot of people go with the Canon 24-105, or similar, with or without Speed booster. Some people go with one of the two Sony kit lenses.


As others have said, my goal is to buy as few Sony lenses as possible.


I have a set of the Rokinon lenses, and I like them, but especially for filmmaking. The 24 mm lens is soft wide open, but I don't consider this a huge problem. If you decide to go this route, purchase the DS versions. Buy them in either Nikon or Canon mounts.


If you look back on the FS5 and FS7 threads, you will find pages and pages of discussion on this topic. And you will find even more on the FS700 threads.
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Just finished a short doc and used in order of greatest use 1st: Rokinon 12mm Cine, Sony 18-105 and the Sigma 18-35. I like them all. None of them are expensive.
 
^^^

Not sure I agree with this at all.

Shot countless corporates and docs with a couple of manual primes only.
 
Re: The eternal zoom vs. prime debate (which this thread looks in danger of turning into ... again!)

I think it's pretty clear that it's a highly subjective choice as to whether zooms or primes are "better" for "most" "jobs". There are obviously many situations where the difference between ~1" to zoom from wide to tele, and at least ~30" to remove a lens, swap the back-cap, attach another, and continue shooting, will be a major factor in the decision. Likewise, a smartly-chosen pair of wide and tele zoom used in combination is likely to weigh a lot less than a full set of primes covering the same range.

However, as Ben rightly said, if you're that way inclined, then it's 100% possible to shoot visually rich footage with as few as two (or some might say even one) prime lens. It really depends on what you value more in your shooting situation, and I think that the only way to truly learn that is by trying both approaches and seeing what gives you (and/or your client) better results, and/or more enjoyment (let's not forget, we basically all get paid for having fun in doing our jobs ;-).

Not intended to dismiss anyones perspective, just wanted to attempt to stop this thread from becoming another 10+ page monster (even if only because it's already been written, here: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?349102-35mm-lens-e-mount-under-1000-euro )

Have a nice weekend,

jason
 
Let's introduce discussion of variable primes and see if we can get this puppy to 30 pages. :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
 
But there is an undeniable fact that when filming action you have no control over,that will happen only once.. if you want to shoot it in a "conventional way" i.e. variety of shot sizes .. and the action happens quickly.. you will miss some shots by changing primes.. this is just an empirical fact of the universe.. time will not stand still even for a DP.. if the style is hose pipe it all on a 12mm then great yes all for it.. but its pretty seldom that that approach/style is wanted.. and who is carrying all the lenses around.. changing lenses on the beach.. dust bowl.. riot..wet market.. rain forest .. snow.. etc.. zoom is the only way to go for doc,s and always has been.. all those 10-1 zooms on Aatons and SR,s.. there was a reason .. anyway this might get the thread to 3 pages ..
 
When I am filming drive bys of cars on car shoots I tend to use a zoom for rapid reframing as I don't know exactly where and when the car will be...

But not everything you shoot is like that. Anything where you know what to expect and have a bit more control is great for primes, which obviously are much better built, are sharper and have far fewer compromises with regards image and mechanical quality. Oh, and they're far more likely to be weather sealed as well.

You don't need to carry every prime under sun with you. 2-3 primes will cover most jobs. I'm downsizing from carrying around a box of 11 lenses to having just a few but excellent ones and zooming with my feet.

I've shot a entire BBC doc solely using a Samyang 35mm f1.4.

Just about every interview I've shot in the last 5 years has been on an 85mm or 50mm prime.

I believe Roger Deakins said he has shot entire features on a 27mm before.
 
Yes but to shoot an entire feature film on one lens would be quite unusual.. and for a style reason only.. you would have to admit that 99.9% of feature films are no shot with one lens.. as 99.9% of doc,s..if we were one of a list of DP,s up for a job..we would probably not get it ,if we only had 2 prime lenses.. or 3 for that matter..
But agree.. you do need a par focal.. 4K spec (these days) zoom lens.. which are heavy and expensive.. but allow you to work as you did with Aaton/SR /ENG.. just the laws of physics in the S35mm sensor world.. of course if you have control then I agree Primes are great.. but even in those conditions these days its all speed.. being "fast" is a big selling point.. for go or for bad.. even interviews Ive read with big time DP,s they are all saying they really have to work quick even on big budget productions..and will often chose 2 or 3 zooms rather than Primes,solely for the speed aspect.. seems its not just us in TV/Corp land that has the push put on them..
 
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Deakins tends to stay on a 27mm or 32mm more often than not.

Jean Pierre Jeneut very very rarely goes more telephoto than a 28mm

Of course these things are a stylistic choice. Shouldn't that be the number one consideration? To use lenses and focal lengths and framings that support the narrative?

People would be surprised at how many DPs like to stick with a single prime as much as possible. As for your other point there has never ever been a point in my career when I have missed out on a gig due to my lenses. And if I knew what a particular job was I'd know in advance what glass I would need. With regards cine zooms, using a Zeiss LWZ or Angie or Cabrio is really not even in the same ballpark as sticking a 24-105 on your FS7. £20-80,000 pieces of glass have a lot less compromises than the mass produced £400 one.


You mention ENG work but that is a world all of its own and larger sensor cameras in the ENG field is still a relatively new thing - but this is quite often about capturing an event rather than making a shot look nice. You'll forgive a shaky out of focus shot in a warzone but maybe not in the middle of a scene in Peaky Blinders.


But coming back to the real world, when we not talking about changing Master primes over but are back in FS7 world, it literally takes me about 10 seconds to switch out a lens.
 
Sorry by ENG I didnt mean news.. but say doc,s shot with digibeta/ 900R etc with wide range zooms.. but yes 2/3 inch sensor.. I found that that doc,s and before them corps all went to s35mm sensors very quickly.. I was a loader for many years on films and commercials .. and never once was there only 2 or 3 primes lenses used.. there was a truck full of them.. Im pretty sure he used more than 2 lenses on the Bond flick..

But yes back to our world.. well TBH I think you can miss alot of shots changing lenses in many doc situations.. getting focus setting Iris .. if its taking 10 seconds everytime you do it.. and who is holding the lenses when you change.. if your doing it yourself your sensor is exposed to all sorts of dust and or strong lights.. personally that would be a sort of bad dream scenario for me on 80% of doc shoots... are we at page 3 yet..:)
 
Donny 123 said:
if your doing it yourself your sensor is exposed to all sorts of dust and or strong lights..
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Which highlights one advantage of the FS7 over the F5; use of a Speed Booster. I've shot in so many shitty environments where changing a lens would have been a risk to the sensor if it wasn't protected by a big lump of glass.
 
haha I'm trying but it's just you and me pushing it now!

'Docs' can mean just about anything these days as well. You have super cinematic and stylised stuff like The Imposter or you have Errol Morris doing the straight down the lens stuff or you have fly on the wall following people about stuff. Plenty of room for either approach in that vast sphere. With the advent of S35 being ubiquitous I thought we were all trying to get away from a 2/3 sensor camera look and feel and I'm not sure how much relevance that way of working has anymore outside actual ENG stuff.


RD has said a few times he'll have a box of Master Primes and a couple of Angie zooms and will pick from that what is right for the shot. But 9 times out of 10 he goes for his preferred focal lengths. Better to have it and not need it. The flipside is of course someone like Ridley (or Tony) Scott who wants all his close ups shot on 100-200mm focal lengths for maximum separation but who also wants to embrace super wides for vistas. It is said that Spielberg sees the world in 21mm because that is his default focal length until he needs something else.

EDIT: For Skyfall he used 4 primes. 27,32, 35 and 40mm.


I might change lenses 4-5 times a day. There's always someone to hold a lens and if not I'll wing it. It's really not the dealbreaker one might think it would be. You'll spend far more time during a shoot day checking your phone and texting people having downtime than playing about changing lenses... Setting iris and focus is still a thing on zooms so no time savings there.

Until such a time as I won't be able to guarantee getting the shot any other way, I'll put image quality over and above ease of use every time and so for me, I'll always prefer to use a prime where possible.
 
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