What format should I shoot?

J

Jeremy7

Active member
Over the past two years I have been working on a documentary about my search for Noah's Ark in eastern Turkey and tracing flood legends across India and other continents. I've shot 40+ hours on the dvx100. I've recently purchased the hvx to finish production of the film. I have alot more to shoot.

Distribution will be on dvd and possibly to a network (if they're interested). Should I shoot the remainder in 1080i or 720p and downconvert to SD when I finish?

Thanks for the advice.

Jeremy
www.TheQuestforBibleTreasures.com
 
Do you want it to match up or look good? Shooting in 720pN to maximize P2 storage (and take advantage of variable frame rates) is going to look better on an SD DVD. Just take a look at Barry's tests. The 720p stuff will not only look sharper in wide screen (thanks to 16x9 chips and better glass on the HVX) but also have better colors (thanks to origionating in 4:2:2) and higher lattitude (less blow out). The difference won't be extreme on an SD DVD but it'll definatly be there (which is I'm assuming why you bought the HVX200). Personally, i don't care too much if some footage looks better than others. If I were you I would make the 720p look as good as possible then downconvert to SD and compress to a DVD.
 
I don't care if some footage looks better than others either. I'd rather it look good than match up. But, you think the footage shot in 720p is sharper and has better colors than 1080i?
 
^
On an SD DVD, you're not going to be able to tell the difference. Once again, look at Barry's tests. I can't tell any difference. I just know they both look better than HVX in mini-DV mode and WAY better than the DVX. One thing to remember is that all images are downrezed from a 1080p origional where all the processing is done so you retain all the detail you can from the high rez CCD no matter what mode you are shooting in. The big difference is that DVCPro50 and DVCProHD (both in 720p and 1080i) have 4:2:2 color sampling over the 4:1:1 of mini-DV. They are all going to look roughly the same on an SD DVD, so I chose 720p 24pN since you get the most memory card space (10 minutes on a 4 gig card as opposed to 8 minutes with DVCPro50 and 4 minutes with 1080i) and you'll get those nice variable frame rates. You also won't have to do 24p extractions with 720p which is a nice plus.
 
Hey Jeremy,

I checked out your website, looks GREAT and I think you are doing a very interesting project.

The 720pn modes are going to be just great for your purposes. We do a heavy amount of corporate work along with our outdoor shows and 30pn and 24pn gets downcoverted to SD DVD here with great success almost daily. So take David's input and go for it!

I'm fairly agnostic but the topic is pretty interesting and I'll bet your finished product is going to be awesome!

:)
 
Thanks! I'm not sure if it will be awesome, but it will be a finished product. Ha!

I am going with 720p. From your opinions and after reading that a history channel documentary (The Mexican American War) was shot in 720p with the HVX200 lead me in the 720p direction. I've got alot of movement (jeeps, horses, climbing) while I shoot and I don't want those interlaced lines.

Hey Travis, it's good to know that an agnostic would have an interest in my project. It's never been my intention to prove the bible right or wrong. I want to know the TRUTH as much as anybody else. But, I can honestly say that what I've learned and seen with my own eyes over the past two years is evidence of a creator.

Jeremy
 
Jeremy7 said:
Thanks! I'm not sure if it will be awesome, but it will be a finished product. Ha!
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Hey just keep her going man! If you have some really interesting content that will be new and fresh for your intended audience its going to be super!

Make it happen! :beer:
 
Dont forget to ark-ive your material.

and good luck ...sounds interesting. When and how do you determine that the project is finished?
 
I'm no where as advanced as most people here, but what about shooting DVCPro50 instead of 720? Pro50 is closer to the SD delivery but gives you very sharp images, 4:2:2 color with less compression. Just a thought.
 
Alex 3D said:
I'm no where as advanced as most people here, but what about shooting DVCPro50 instead of 720? Pro50 is closer to the SD delivery but gives you very sharp images, 4:2:2 color with less compression. Just a thought.
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Barry did some tests on burning all formats to an SD DVD. I urge you to look the thread up. To my eyes, DVCPro50, 720, and 1080 all looked about the same when burned to an SD DVD. The DVCPro50 was perhaps SLIGHLY sharper. Now, when I say slightly I mean something like 0.5%, something not really noticible unless you zoom in. I didn't notice any more compression artifacts with the 720 and 1080 stuff though.

Once again, since they look pretty much the same, I chose to shoot 72024pN to maximize record time and take advantage of the variable frame rates.
 
Shooter said:
Dont forget to ark-ive your material.

and good luck ...sounds interesting. When and how do you determine that the project is finished?
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Yeah, I'm starting to ask myself that question. I past the original script about 1 year ago, but things keep developing and I'm learning really interesting stuff all the time. Sometime I have to stop, so I decided I'm headed to Russia, Antartica and the middle east, then the production is complete. No more after that! Ark-e-ology can be addictive.
 
I am in agreement with the option to shoot dvcpro50. You are going standard def. anyway for your final output and the rest of your footage was shot in sd. Match the frame rates and the settings as closely as possible to your dvx look and go with dvcpro 50. As stated above, Barry's tests indicate a potentially slighty better final output to dvd than 720. It's definitely not worse. The only advantage to going 720 is to shoot in pn mode for added record time. But that is somewhat dependent on the framerate you shot with the dvx. Then again, you may also experience a minor headache, depending on the capabilities of your NLE in post by mixing progressively shot footage with a pulldown from your dvx and native footage in 720 mode.
Again. Just to re-inforce, dvcpro 50 would be my suggestion. You still get the color space of 720, etc, etc.

Do some tests, maybe and see which one you find gives you the closest approximation to your dvx footage with the least hassle.

Jason
 
No, DVCPro50 is SD. It is similar to mini-DV but with much less color compression so it looks cleaner and nicer.

Then again, you may also experience a minor headache, depending on the capabilities of your NLE in post by mixing progressively shot footage with a pulldown from your dvx and native footage in 720 mode.
Again. Just to re-inforce, dvcpro 50 would be my suggestion. You still get the color space of 720, etc, etc.
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In the case of something like Avid, it's actually much easier to mix 720pN in. Avid, and some other NLEs, won't do frame extractions on MXF files imported into the program (only during capture). Currently, you can't get rid of the extra frames in all 24p modes shot on P2 other than the native ones. So, if you have been shooting stuff in 24p on the the DVX, the only way to get it to play nice with the HVX200 is to shoot 24pN
 
I would suggest 720p, since variable frame rates are only possible in this mode. That's a creative freedom you should want to keep. Also, having stock 720p footage is better than sd footage.
 
I'll add my vote for 720pn for the reasons mentioned (as long as your NLE will work with it). Though I usually prefer to shoot 1080 when I can, I really love 720, and for what you're doing, 720 should be wonderful.

Oh, and just acacia don't know already, they're coming out with a new arkival solution. It is water resistant (though not submersible), and is quarranteed to outlast the destruction of all life on earth. Noahn really know, however, when the delivery date will be--until then, keep enjoying every incination of your wicked hearts! **Perverts.**


:Drogar-Evil(DBG):
 
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