What Format Are You Shooting?

S

Sumfun

Veteran
For those who are currently using the HVX-200, I'm curious to find out which format you are shooting. Is it 720p, 1080i, 1080p, or SD? What frame rate? And why did you choose to shoot in this format? I'd also like to find out about what work flow you're using.

I'm just about ready to buy an HVX, and I'd like to find out what's working well for those who are already using it.
 
I've had that same discussion with myself! While I wait for a P2 Store to arrive, I may be forced to shoot 720/24pN simply because it allows 40 mins of footage on my two 8GB P2 cards. Certainly 24pN is the most efficient editing format on my system (AxioHD).

Personal opinions being what they are, it still feels difficult to let go of 720/60p.

That said, I'll prolly shoot 720/24pN just because Barry said so and because its 5.5MB/s with pulldown removed and 7 is my lucky number. 1280x720/60p is 13.7MB/s.

Some engineering-level discussion on another forum decided for TVs and projection systems not exceeding 10' in horizontal size, 1280x720 was plenty good. 1080 if you're going larger than that.
John
 
The terrific thing with the HVX is that you can shoot anything the situation requires. I am currently shooting a dramatic feature called "Letting Go", a feature doc called "The Truth about Elvis" and a TV series call "Pulse...". Each has required different shooting modes for different reasons.

Pulse is used to shooting Beta and have been very pleased with the DV from the HVX. The producers have a flat rate with post and the P2 workflow won't garner them any savings, so they like walking with the tape. We shoot all of it DV 4:3 60i since it is a magazine format show without the need for long term future proofing of HD.

Letting Go is 720 @ 24pn for the ability to take advantage of variable framerates and the extra bit of info in the 1080 signal didn't outwiegh the costs in terms of data flow. We do shoot all of our green screen shots at 1080 for downres to 720 as this does produce a noticably cleaner key. I've also started shooting select hand held sequences in 1080 with the idea of stabilizing in post and the added res will allow me to crop in on the stabilized footage without loosing detail.

The Elvis doc is also 720@24PN because we have over a terabyte of raw footage and the added expense of shooting that much footage at 1080 just wasn't worth it.

Hope that helps,
filmstox
 
So far, everything I've done for hire has been 720 24pn for some reason or another, even stuff that winds up SD (mainly because I've needed the extra size and detail for motion tracking). I wouldn't hesitate to shoot native SD for any project that was SD in nature, except for the reason I outlined above.

IMO, the HVX is a superb SD camera, a great 720p camera and a very mediocre 1080 one. Recorded 1080 on the HVX is closer to full raster 1280 by 720 in real resolution, on a generous testing day. Even so, that's one up on the Varicam.

Recording 1080 and then using CineForm to make full raster 1280 by 720 out of it is the best possible post workflow for extracting the most out of the camera with the least editing bandwidth.

Regards,

Jim Arthurs
 
filmstox said:
Letting Go is 720 @ 24pn for the ability to take advantage of variable framerates and the extra bit of info in the 1080 signal didn't outwiegh the costs in terms of data flow. We do shoot all of our green screen shots at 1080 for downres to 720 as this does produce a noticably cleaner key. I've also started shooting select hand held sequences in 1080 with the idea of stabilizing in post and the added res will allow me to crop in on the stabilized footage without loosing detail.
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Filmstox,
Appreciate that idea for getting cleaner keys! Thanks.

Are other people finding that 720/24 requires a very stable camera? Seems to me that in 24frame modes, any movement is much more noticeable....unless very slow and controlled.
John
 
So far I've just been using it for my own stuff and thus 720 24pN is what I've been shooting. 1080i simply doesn't offer enough qualatative difference to justify the 2.5 times more space it takes.

I've got an instructional video to shoot later this summer and I'm currently debating whether or not to go SD or 720. My client would most likely be more impressed by HD but considering it'll be delivered on a DVD or VHS, I'm not sure if it'll be worth it, especially since it'll mean I'll have to be bound to a laptop as I only have 1 4 gig P2. If only cineporter would get here sooner.
 
I've pretty much stuck to 720 24PN as well for most everything, although I will say that despite comments to the contrary, I have done some 1080 direct to my workstation thru Edius Broadcast and was awestruck by the fidelity of the picture (am looking at it with the Panasonic LH1700W).
 
With a Firestore I have no choice except for 720p60. The advantages are the availability of 18 dB gain and a 6-second pre-record feature with the Firestore.

For green screen composites and time lapse work I'll use 1080p30 for the sake of slightly increased resolution.

When I shot a recent job with a client's P2 Store he requested 720 30pn.
It was to maximize the recording time for the available storage space provided by the P2 Store. But it sacrifices any record-ahead buffer and increased gain beyond 12 dB.
 
DCSensui said:
With a Firestore I have no choice except for 720p60. The advantages are the availability of 18 dB gain and a 6-second pre-record feature with the Firestore.

For green screen composites and time lapse work I'll use 1080p30 for the sake of slightly increased resolution.

When I shot a recent job with a client's P2 Store he requested 720 30pn.
It was to maximize the recording time for the available storage space provided by the P2 Store. But it sacrifices any record-ahead buffer and increased gain beyond 12 dB.
Click to expand...

Don't you get a lot of noise at 18 dB gain? Wouldn't it be better to shoot with 12 dB (or even 6 dB) gain, then increase the gain in post?
 
John Morgan said:
Are other people finding that 720/24 requires a very stable camera? Seems to me that in 24frame modes, any movement is much more noticeable....unless very slow and controlled.
John
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've been shooting 720/24pN and noticed that handheld shakes seem much more jarring than in SD. ...maybe the 16x9 aspect contributes to this as well. I'm using a Steadicam Merlin, which helps a lot for tracking shots. Also planning on buying a dolly for the same reason.

For shooting formats, I've been almost exclusively using 720p/24pN.
So much more efficient for storage.
 
I try to use 1080/24--it gets the nicest picture imo. Definitely good for green screen work. 720/24pn when I need the space or for frame rates, and I use tape for personal stuff.

(Confession of an HVX-aholic: I use this for my family's video-camera. It breaks my heart to think that I am recording the most important footage of my life on some cheap video-ugly camcorder. So, hence, I am the coolest-looking dad at the little league field, and a VERY wierd uncle.)
 
Jim Arthurs said:
So far, everything I've done for hire has been 720 24pn for some reason or another, even stuff that winds up SD (mainly because I've needed the extra size and detail for motion tracking). I wouldn't hesitate to shoot native SD for any project that was SD in nature, except for the reason I outlined above.

IMO, the HVX is a superb SD camera, a great 720p camera and a very mediocre 1080 one. Recorded 1080 on the HVX is closer to full raster 1280 by 720 in real resolution, on a generous testing day. Even so, that's one up on the Varicam.

Recording 1080 and then using CineForm to make full raster 1280 by 720 out of it is the best possible post workflow for extracting the most out of the camera with the least editing bandwidth.

Regards,

Jim Arthurs
Click to expand...

How does the SD picture compare to the DVX? What motion tracking software do you use, and do you downrez to 4:3 or 16:9 SD?
 
Thanks to those who replied. I'm a little surprised that pretty much every one is shooting 720/24p, except for when doing keying. I guess this does save a lot on storage, but Barry Green seems to suggest shooting at 1080p would produce better quality. Here's a quote from his HVX vs HD100 comparison:

"Two reasons. One, because the HVX is higher def in 1080. In 720 the HVX records 960x720, in 1080 it records 1280x1080. 1280x1080 downrezzes to 1280x720 very nicely. Makes for ultimate 720p. And if I'm going to go comparing resolution, I'm not going to tie one hand behind the HVX's back, I'm gonna let it do what it does best. And 1080 is what it does best. I would only use 720 if I needed maximum recording time on the cards; otherwise it's 1080 all the way, all the time. It's what the camera does best."

Do you think you would be shooting more 1080 footage if you had more storage (FS100 or Cineporter)? Or is there just not much demand from customers for 1080?
 
Sumfun said:
Do you think you would be shooting more 1080 footage if you had more storage (FS100 or Cineporter)? Or is there just not much demand from customers for 1080?
Click to expand...

I would shoot almost everything in 1080p30 or 1080i if the Firestore FS-100 allowed it.

The FS-100 only records in 720p60.
 
DCSensui said:
I would shoot almost everything in 1080p30 or 1080i if the Firestore FS-100 allowed it.

The FS-100 only records in 720p60.
Click to expand...

I didn't realize that. Thanks for bringing it up. I guess the only way to shoot 1080 is on P2 or Cineporter.
 
from my very limited testing, i do see a difference between 1080 and 720...

i feel that chances are i'll be shooting mostly in 1080.
 
Sumfun said:
How does the SD picture compare to the DVX? What motion tracking software do you use, and do you downrez to 4:3 or 16:9 SD?
Click to expand...

I think the HVX SD image (down-rezzed HD or DVCPRO 50) blows away anything you can see from the DVX, unless you copy over or shoot in DVCPRO 25/miniDV which will trash the image back to DVX quality.

Of course having a native 19:9 chipset is part of the equation, and true low compression 4:2:2 recording in DVCPRO 50. Simply put, the HVX is the best SD camera out there in anything near the price range.

I've used Syntheyes for the most part, and I work and do the FX in 720 with a final downrez to SD. I've had to deliver 4:3 on one job and 16:9 letter-boxed on another.

Regards,

Jim Arthurs
 
Sumfun said:
I didn't realize that. Thanks for bringing it up. I guess the only way to shoot 1080 is on P2 or Cineporter.
Click to expand...
I need to correct that last statement I made.

The FS-100 WILL record in 1080p30 and 1080i.

The menu item on the FS-100 misled me into thinking it wouldn't do that, but after testing it today, I discovered that it does.

A good thing -- because it allows me to grab still frames from some of the video if I need it.
 
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