GH3 What do you want to see in a GH3/GH2 comparison?

Has anybody who experienced aliasing and moire on the 12-35mm lens tried bringing down the sharpness? There is a good reason why Panasonic is now giving us a pretty wide range of values to work with here. You may have to now tweak the sharpness setting depending on which lens and which environment you are in. If you really want the razor sharp detail then you may run the risk of a bit more moire. Dial down the sharpness and it may be gone. I have seen GH3 material with the sharpness at -5 that looked very creamy with no chance of moire. Going down to -3 may get rid of the moire as well.

This is a test I'm sure may help some people.
 
+1 to this, I've also been wondering why people talking about too sharp lenses haven't tried out reducing the artificial sharpness first.
 
jamagara said:
+1 to this, I've also been wondering why people talking about too sharp lenses haven't tried out reducing the artificial sharpness first.
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Certain hacks on the GH2 increase bit rate which = more information. No matter what setting I placed sharpness I simply could not use the 12-35mm lens for many many straight edge objects. Also I just don't like the lens at all.

Manual iris lenses that are usually Primes are what looks great to me. Never been a fan of photo zoom lenses for video work.
 
Thanks again for all of the feedback. I've written a fairly lengthy comparison between the two cameras and will publish it later today along with the accompanying test footage. I think it will be quite valuable for those looking to purchase a GH3 as for some people the choice between the two cameras will be clear, but for others the additional cost of the GH3 may not be worth it for their particular needs. A point I have made in the write up is the fact that you can buy two gh2's for the price of a single gh3... I'm sure this would be tempting for some people, especially those shooting events or multi camera narrative material.

Will update shortly.
 
noam said:
Thanks again for all of the feedback. I've written a fairly lengthy comparison between the two cameras and will publish it later today along with the accompanying test footage. I think it will be quite valuable for those looking to purchase a GH3 as for some people the choice between the two cameras will be clear, but for others the additional cost of the GH3 may not be worth it for their particular needs. A point I have made in the write up is the fact that you can buy two gh2's for the price of a single gh3... I'm sure this would be tempting for some people, especially those shooting events or multi camera narrative material.

Will update shortly.
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Please tell us you tested the 1080p 60fps mode, that to me is the Major deciding factor. Also clean iso. 800 iso is the Max I can use on my Gh2 and not that I want to go higher, but man it just gets really nasty above that. Heck at 800 iso it's pretty noisy.

So if 1080p 60fps mode is better along with cleaner iso, better viewing screen, better handling, built in time lapse feature, etc. etc. I see no idea how in the world anyone would choose Gh2 over GH3.
Yeah you can buy two GH2 for the price of a GH3, but that honestly shouldn't be an arguing point at all. Heck that mean you can buy 3 GH1 for the price of a Gh3.....
Regardless waiting to read the write up + watching footage
Thanks!
 
stoneinapond said:
Yes.
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That's unfortunate and the reason I passed on all the GH cameras from the start. I'm from NYC but travel back and forth to Pal lands so I need both 50hz and 60hz to keep out of trouble with existing lighting. If you think moire is a problem, try pulsing street lights. I guess it's another deal breaker for me. Never really understood why all the canons have NTSC/PAL switchable modes while GH cams don't. I guess I'll have to live with my Canons until the BMCC is ripe.
 
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Why can't you switch your shutter speed to 50/60 multiples in PAL/NTSC lands respectively? Always worked for me.
 
I am very curious to see a nice comparison between the GH2 and GH3 for dynamic range. From the simple tests that are already online, there seems to be no noticeable increase in DR with the GH3, but this was not conclusive as we have no idea what the OP had as lenses, picture profile, etc... And please, drop contrast down to -5 on the GH3. Although it's not available on the GH2, I think it's still fair to compare how much detail we can get in camera without any post manipulation... Plus, for all we know, -5 could be the same as -2 just with smaller increments.
 
John Caballero said:
Really? In a matter of weeks everybody is going to have to have a GH3. Count on it.
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Well, you can rephrase that to "mostly everybody" because I'm not going to buy one, at least not any time soon. Maybe if hack progress shows something interesting down the road.
 
Kholi said:
Well, you can rephrase that to "mostly everybody" because I'm not going to buy one, at least not any time soon. Maybe if hack progress shows something interesting down the road.
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Yeah. I think many people will stick to the hacked GH2 with a body that's half of the price unless the GH3 shows some considerable increase in image quality. I anxiously await people's footy! Cause quite frankly, the tools are already there, but if there is a nice bump in DR, then cool!
 
PaPa said:
Yeah. I think many people will stick to the hacked GH2 with a body that's half of the price unless the GH3 shows some considerable increase in image quality. I anxiously await people's footy! Cause quite frankly, the tools are already there, but if there is a nice bump in DR, then cool!
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There is actually a worthwhile jump in Dynamic Range with the GH3, I've seen that first hand, but it also depends on the definition of worthwhile. GH2 is 9, GH3 looks like it's about 11. That's different than going from 9/10 to 13, so I guess it's all in the eye of the camera holder.

I'd love to cite Moire/Aliasing as an issue, but this isn't the only camera with it so what can you do?

It's the overall look that I go back and forth about, I think Roman might agree with me.

I too await more footages, though.
 
Kholi said:
There is actually a worthwhile jump in Dynamic Range with the GH3, I've seen that first hand, but it also depends on the definition of worthwhile. GH2 is 9, GH3 looks like it's about 11. That's different than going from 9/10 to 13, so I guess it's all in the eye of the camera holder.

I'd love to cite Moire/Aliasing as an issue, but this isn't the only camera with it so what can you do?

It's the overall look that I go back and forth about, I think Roman might agree with me.

I too await more footages, though.
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Yeah, I feel the jury is still out on the aliasing/moire. Almost all the early footage has been shot with that hyper sharp 17-35 panny lens
 
I get the impression if I used the GH3, moire and aliasing would be a complete non-issue for me. I don't own or use lumix glass or any ultra sharp modern lenses.

Slap on a Nikkor / Rokkor or any other decent vintage prime I'm likely to use, reduce sharpness a bit, and I doubt that I'd ever see aliasing or moire. My guess is that the GH3 might look sharper than it really is because so many people have been shooting with lumix lenses. The vivid color pallet combined with a slight hint of aliasing kind of makes you think that what you're looking at, is insanely sharp.

With a good comparison blown up at 400%, and sharpness at 0, on a decent zeiss or sigma prime lens, I'm guessing the GH3 won't appear sharper than the GH2. Sharpness in all honesty just doesn't matter a whole lot to me anyway.

It'd be cool to see some kind of DR test where you expose equally for something in a bright area, like text on paper right by a bright light bulb and then have another part of the image in relative darkness with lots of tiny details and things to pick out (then the reverse, exposing nicely for the shadowy parts first). If there is a DR improvement it seems like it might be in the shadows, cause highlights at least right now seem to clip before the GH2 or around the same time just based on most of the GH3 stuff that I've come across.
 
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mcbob said:
Why can't you switch your shutter speed to 50/60 multiples in PAL/NTSC lands respectively? Always worked for me.
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That's an interesting theory. What Pal regions did you shoot in and did it include florescent or street lights? I'll put my canon on NTSC and see what happens in 50hz lighting at 50th / 60th sec.
 
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ROCKMORE said:
That's an interesting theory. What Pal regions did you shoot in and did it include florescent or street lights? I'll put my canon on NTSC and see what happens in 50hz lighting at 50th / 60th sec.
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Belgium and Liberia... Liberia in particular was challenging because in their state of rebuilding, any given place will be a mishmash of 50Hz or 60Hz depending upon what generators or electrical goods were purchased or donated. Not many street lights at the time I was there, but LOTS of very very poorly ballasted fluoros (most every household or business light was fluoro). Shot 24p the whole time on an HV30 (NTSC only).
 
J.F.R. said:
Certain hacks on the GH2 increase bit rate which = more information. No matter what setting I placed sharpness I simply could not use the 12-35mm lens for many many straight edge objects. Also I just don't like the lens at all.

Manual iris lenses that are usually Primes are what looks great to me. Never been a fan of photo zoom lenses for video work.
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Yes that was on the GH2 which could only go down to -2. -2 on a camera that basically shoots 4k is going to be very subtle once that image gets down to 1080p. -5 on the GH3 makes a massive difference and every level between -5 and -2 should have different degrees of sharpness reduction which may help m4/3 lenses look more natural. Some of the material Andrew from EOSHD shot with the GH3 was at -5 and it looks very clean.

We seriously need somebody to put this stupid moire thing to rest and do a test with different sharpness levels. Until that point we just keep spinning in circles about it being too soft and then too sharp. I have yet to anybody shoot anything other then 0 or -5 which to me seems odd considering the level of concern out there.
 
Well, you can rephrase that to "mostly everybody" because I'm not going to buy one, at least not any time soon. Maybe if hack progress shows something interesting down the road.
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Oh, but Kholi, you will! Only just a matter of time! LOL!
 
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