Hello, what are some tools (or techniques) you find yourself utilizing most often? Is it because of simplicity, effectiveness, or uniqueness to that look? I'm just trying to understand which lights do which jobs... I hear Par-style lights are the best for bouncing into a card and bringing ambient light up, for example.
What do you "really" need in a lighting kit?
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wgzn
Veteran
the answer to your question depends entirely on what youre shooting at any given time.
to answer as simply as possible (but there is a TON of variable and a variety of accessories in each scenario)
- for corporate interviews, im all LED these days. mainly because of temperature and small footprint
- for local television spots (standups and broad location shots) i tend to go to kinoflo divas.
- for larger situations there are a variety of arri fresnels i often use.
but with flags and scrims and gels you can adapt just about anything (within reason) to suit your needs
to answer as simply as possible (but there is a TON of variable and a variety of accessories in each scenario)
- for corporate interviews, im all LED these days. mainly because of temperature and small footprint
- for local television spots (standups and broad location shots) i tend to go to kinoflo divas.
- for larger situations there are a variety of arri fresnels i often use.
but with flags and scrims and gels you can adapt just about anything (within reason) to suit your needs
Michael Carter
Veteran
This is one of those bizarre questions... essentially the best answer is "knowledge and experience".
I've done nice lighting jobs with nothing but open faced rectangular theatrical fixtures - basically shop lights with more lamping options, barn doors and real stand mounts.
Look at some of Roger Deakins' BTS shots - Mole redheads blasting away at muslin taped to a wall, and big wooden rings with dozens of clear household bulbs hanging from ceilings. He'll do things that are just insanely primitive, and he's one of the best.
It's much more about picturing the look you want in your head and then figuring out how to get there. Knowing when you need soft, hard or semi-hard light, how to bounce and flag, etc.
(I'm sort of guessing you're starting out so I'll say...) I 2nd the daylight direction Wgzn mentioned. These days you can get dual biax flos for like $175 a pop. You can stick those big 85 - 200 watt flo bulbs in anything with a screw base (some of them will need a little minus green). The temperature and amp-draw of daylight stuff is unbeatable. Those Alzo HID bulb & ballast combos are crazy useful; their complete HID lights are really very nice as far as the light goes, but mechanically they're kind of crap compared to a nice fresnel - but I have three of 'em and use them all the time.
A couple 500 and 1k fresnels (even used theatrical stuff) can be gelled, and using 1/2 CTB will preserve some lumens and give you some warm, hard light. Or go full CTB. Or get some big theatrical fresnels and convert them for the Alzo setup (I've done one and it's equal to a 650 fresnel, yet it's daylight - a 650 with a full CTB is worth about 250 watts) or use Cool Lights bulb & ballast. We are now talking more $$ than a handful of shop lights, but that's the direction i'd start throwing money if I were starting over.
Decent stands and some white & black foamcore, a few grip heads and a duffel bag full of BIG sheets of fabric, a lot of tape, some power strips... you can do a heck of a lot.
The main thing is to think about the kind of scenes you'll be shooting. If you're a romantic comedy guy with a DSLR, maybe a lot of bounce fabrics, an 8x8 butterfly for outdoors and a couple flos, and stuff that lets you use practicals to light a room realistically. Corporate interviews, maybe it's flos and some sort of cool-temp softboxes. Music videos, maybe you're better off going tungsten with lots of sizes of fresnel.
I usually tell newbies to avoid getting some three-softbox kit... I just never use 'em unless I'm shooting tabletop product stills.
I've done nice lighting jobs with nothing but open faced rectangular theatrical fixtures - basically shop lights with more lamping options, barn doors and real stand mounts.
Look at some of Roger Deakins' BTS shots - Mole redheads blasting away at muslin taped to a wall, and big wooden rings with dozens of clear household bulbs hanging from ceilings. He'll do things that are just insanely primitive, and he's one of the best.
It's much more about picturing the look you want in your head and then figuring out how to get there. Knowing when you need soft, hard or semi-hard light, how to bounce and flag, etc.
(I'm sort of guessing you're starting out so I'll say...) I 2nd the daylight direction Wgzn mentioned. These days you can get dual biax flos for like $175 a pop. You can stick those big 85 - 200 watt flo bulbs in anything with a screw base (some of them will need a little minus green). The temperature and amp-draw of daylight stuff is unbeatable. Those Alzo HID bulb & ballast combos are crazy useful; their complete HID lights are really very nice as far as the light goes, but mechanically they're kind of crap compared to a nice fresnel - but I have three of 'em and use them all the time.
A couple 500 and 1k fresnels (even used theatrical stuff) can be gelled, and using 1/2 CTB will preserve some lumens and give you some warm, hard light. Or go full CTB. Or get some big theatrical fresnels and convert them for the Alzo setup (I've done one and it's equal to a 650 fresnel, yet it's daylight - a 650 with a full CTB is worth about 250 watts) or use Cool Lights bulb & ballast. We are now talking more $$ than a handful of shop lights, but that's the direction i'd start throwing money if I were starting over.
Decent stands and some white & black foamcore, a few grip heads and a duffel bag full of BIG sheets of fabric, a lot of tape, some power strips... you can do a heck of a lot.
The main thing is to think about the kind of scenes you'll be shooting. If you're a romantic comedy guy with a DSLR, maybe a lot of bounce fabrics, an 8x8 butterfly for outdoors and a couple flos, and stuff that lets you use practicals to light a room realistically. Corporate interviews, maybe it's flos and some sort of cool-temp softboxes. Music videos, maybe you're better off going tungsten with lots of sizes of fresnel.
I usually tell newbies to avoid getting some three-softbox kit... I just never use 'em unless I'm shooting tabletop product stills.
maranfilms
Veteran
To be completely honest, I prefer an open face tungston can with barn doors and umbrellas. I can work so much faster than when using my softboxes, and I feel like I have more control. I can get hard and soft light from one setup with a two second modifacation. if I need to gel, then I use the barndoors to clip to. I do mix and match on just about every shoot, but my goto lights are my cheapest par cans with umbrellas. I also use alot of fresnels to bounce and create outside ambient fill.
Gabel
Well-known member
I can also vouch for reflectors! Almost every light I put up I try to bounce or diffuse (unless I want it very hard). While 5-in-1 reflectors can be OK, I have one who's name I can't remember (and not with me so), but it's something along the lines of Visual Departments (it's at least very similar to a Lastolite) and like some more expensive ones (I got mine used at a rental house) it's much more even, with the white and silver each being great for bouncing.
I own a rather "basic" kit that works for a lot of things. It's one Arri 300 Fresnel, one Arri 650 Fresnel, two Ianiro Blondies and three Coollights 4x55 flos. That's a great tungsten kit that didn't break the bank. The Coolights of course can be daylight, but if I need it, I rent a big HMI (sometimes, that's what you need) as it's too expensive to own one for me.
I own a rather "basic" kit that works for a lot of things. It's one Arri 300 Fresnel, one Arri 650 Fresnel, two Ianiro Blondies and three Coollights 4x55 flos. That's a great tungsten kit that didn't break the bank. The Coolights of course can be daylight, but if I need it, I rent a big HMI (sometimes, that's what you need) as it's too expensive to own one for me.
wgzn
Veteran
i have a similar discussion going on in another thread. but if i had to build a basic "cover as many bases with as little money as possible" kit right now, here's what id get:
(i'll try to be as detailed as i can)
3 lowel 250 watt prolights with barn doors
1 arri 650 or 1k fresnel (very handy for larger sets)
a variety of scrims for whichever arri youve chosen
2 medium duty light stands
2 avenger c-stands with boom arm
4 manfrotto super clamps (or matthews mafer clamps) WITH PINS
3-4 lowes depot small halogen floor cans and incandescent desk lamps
5 lowes depot inline dimmers DO NOT USE ON THE ARRI
3 100' extension cords
1 50' extension cord
2 25' extension cords
2 HEAVY DUTY power strips
a variety of bungee cords (multiple sizes) velcro straps and bongo ties
2 bounce cards
1 package of c-47s (wooden clothes pins)
a roll of black wrap
a variety of CTB as well as diffusion and effect gels
4 sandbags
1 roll black gaffer tape
1 roll bright neon gaffer tape
2 pair of work gloves, oven mitts or pot holders
1 leatherman tool
1 multi allen wrench set
keep in mind, this list is supposed to cover a variety of situations. my primary work these days is corporate stuff. so my current kit is completely different (primarily LEDs) so once again. this answer depends on what kind of work you do and where you do it...
(i'll try to be as detailed as i can)
3 lowel 250 watt prolights with barn doors
1 arri 650 or 1k fresnel (very handy for larger sets)
a variety of scrims for whichever arri youve chosen
2 medium duty light stands
2 avenger c-stands with boom arm
4 manfrotto super clamps (or matthews mafer clamps) WITH PINS
3-4 lowes depot small halogen floor cans and incandescent desk lamps
5 lowes depot inline dimmers DO NOT USE ON THE ARRI
3 100' extension cords
1 50' extension cord
2 25' extension cords
2 HEAVY DUTY power strips
a variety of bungee cords (multiple sizes) velcro straps and bongo ties
2 bounce cards
1 package of c-47s (wooden clothes pins)
a roll of black wrap
a variety of CTB as well as diffusion and effect gels
4 sandbags
1 roll black gaffer tape
1 roll bright neon gaffer tape
2 pair of work gloves, oven mitts or pot holders
1 leatherman tool
1 multi allen wrench set
keep in mind, this list is supposed to cover a variety of situations. my primary work these days is corporate stuff. so my current kit is completely different (primarily LEDs) so once again. this answer depends on what kind of work you do and where you do it...
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Michael Carter
Veteran
I would add to your must-have list a pair of beefy babies or similar. The added security those suckers offer makes them a massive bargain IMHO. The Matthews Hollywood steel stands are similar, hold up to 25 lbs, and are under $90.
I'm getting two or three more in the next few weeks. They'll make you say "C-stands? Phht!".
I'm getting two or three more in the next few weeks. They'll make you say "C-stands? Phht!".
David G. Smith
Steak Knife Member
Michael, do you have a link to those specific stands? I am looking to get some.
To the OP, here is a good little intro to the basics of a grip kit.
eric teotico
Active member
wgzn,
What lighting set would you suggest for corporate work?
What lighting set would you suggest for corporate work?
paulears
Veteran
These are very strange questions - I don't think there IS a standard kit. It's a case of looking at the set - and selecting kit, which means either using your own kit which may not be ideal, or renting in the right stuff. I used to do lots of stuff with a 3 redhead kit. It's rarely used now because we now also need to light green screen background, or add decorative lights for the set.
Corporate work means what? presenter to camera with real background, green screen, presentations, arms, meetings, promos - etc? Each needs something different. Tungsten variable beam width Fresnels with barndoors, or open face Redhead types, Softlights with tubes, tubular tungsten, or LED panels? So much different kit now. I tend to think now that buying a 'kit' or a 'set' is no longer a product that will actually do everything anymore. You go to the client to shoot a piece to camera in their office with the intention of it looking 'busy' - but it looks a mess, so you decide to green screen. Different process, different ideal kit.
Everything is too variable nowadays for stock lighting with minimal kit. Variety being the important thing if you need to purchase, not hire. My lighting stock keep growing and growing with every different job seeming to need different kit!
Corporate work means what? presenter to camera with real background, green screen, presentations, arms, meetings, promos - etc? Each needs something different. Tungsten variable beam width Fresnels with barndoors, or open face Redhead types, Softlights with tubes, tubular tungsten, or LED panels? So much different kit now. I tend to think now that buying a 'kit' or a 'set' is no longer a product that will actually do everything anymore. You go to the client to shoot a piece to camera in their office with the intention of it looking 'busy' - but it looks a mess, so you decide to green screen. Different process, different ideal kit.
Everything is too variable nowadays for stock lighting with minimal kit. Variety being the important thing if you need to purchase, not hire. My lighting stock keep growing and growing with every different job seeming to need different kit!
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Of course shooting a feature, studio, or a special job any form of lighting could be required.
I think some 'standard setups' are useful in the arsenal of techniques, partly just to make you decisive and speedy on location.
My kit is..
2 dedo DL4,
1 Kino style light
3 redheads
a 3X3 reflector, a 6X4 shoot through
I have standard ways of using this kit..
emergency..
grab a single dedo and point it at my subject, maybe running from my car socket
speed
single dedo and 3X3 reflector to give a little fill
small room/less time
flo and 2 dedos
larger room/more time
dedo, hair
dedo background feature (like the trophy cabinet, guitar on the wall whatever)
2Xredheads through the 6.4 for soft key
third redhead on the ceiling
no flo because I dont actually like the quality compared to the 6.4 for key
outside
reflectors and maybe the gelled redheads (p*ssing in the wind on a sunny day)
BTW all of these are generally gelled to daylight so a window and help
S
I think some 'standard setups' are useful in the arsenal of techniques, partly just to make you decisive and speedy on location.
My kit is..
2 dedo DL4,
1 Kino style light
3 redheads
a 3X3 reflector, a 6X4 shoot through
I have standard ways of using this kit..
emergency..
grab a single dedo and point it at my subject, maybe running from my car socket
speed
single dedo and 3X3 reflector to give a little fill
small room/less time
flo and 2 dedos
larger room/more time
dedo, hair
dedo background feature (like the trophy cabinet, guitar on the wall whatever)
2Xredheads through the 6.4 for soft key
third redhead on the ceiling
no flo because I dont actually like the quality compared to the 6.4 for key
outside
reflectors and maybe the gelled redheads (p*ssing in the wind on a sunny day)
BTW all of these are generally gelled to daylight so a window and help
S
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Bern Caughey
Veteran
I concur. Cans, or open face, for raw power, & elipse for finesse.
Never understood why the Source 4 doesn't get more love on this forum, especially as they're inexpensive.
Never understood why the Source 4 doesn't get more love on this forum, especially as they're inexpensive.
David G. Smith
Steak Knife Member
Well, I am interested in the Source 4, but I got a set of standard PAR 64 cans so cheap that there really is no comparison. I got 4 new PAR 64 cans for about $85.00. Even with getting bulbs and a TVMP stand adapter for each, I am still looking at about $55.00 a piece. That is hard to beat. Now, the versatility of the Source 4 is enticing... I may have to look at them again.
The answer to the thread title what you really need in a lighting kit is "control". No matter what lights you get, without a way to control them, you are lost.
Although all the fixture types have their place, tungsten fresnels are still probably the most versatile. You can soften hard light, but not viceversa. If I were only doing interviews, I'd go with flos and maybe add a fresnel for hairlight or backgrounds. If I was totally mobile and needed the most light with the smallest mass, go with LEDs. In the big picture, you will end up with a combo.
Although all the fixture types have their place, tungsten fresnels are still probably the most versatile. You can soften hard light, but not viceversa. If I were only doing interviews, I'd go with flos and maybe add a fresnel for hairlight or backgrounds. If I was totally mobile and needed the most light with the smallest mass, go with LEDs. In the big picture, you will end up with a combo.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I think (but am not sure) that my DLH4s are the most light for the smallest mass, or certainly packdown volume ?
To me the appeal of LED is light per unit current not ass .. ie the battery abilities .. which of course is a useful spec to some
S
gonzo_entertainment
Veteran
Just completed what I consider a "basic" set of lights for narrative. It's the equivalent of the kit we rented on our first three films. All Mole Richardson, 200 Midget, 200 Mini (with snoot set), 650 teenie weenie (open face with barn doors), and 1 1K solar spot. Add some bounce, a set of flags, a couple of baby stands and a couple of c stands and and you can light up to a medium interior pretty easily. Beyond that is rent for us.
paulears
Veteran
Which Source 4? I assume you mean the Parnel? They're quite nice fixtures, but I've not thought about them for video. The rotating lens for beam spread is clever, unlike the Source 4 Par, which has those clip in lenses to set the beam angle. They're pretty touch - but not cheap.
maranfilms
Veteran
I think it's also mandatory to have some universal dimmers as well. There's times when I cant get away with flags, and like the warmer color temps. But then again, I use mostly tungston as I earlier stated. I also think 650's are about the best most versatile wattage light for any kit. You can also pick up some older disiti instruments where you can swap out 1k to 2k lamps, without issues. Anything more than 2k, you need to up your voltage from the standard 120 here in the us. And sometimes 2k is pushing it and needs not have anything else on the circuit.
So fo me, I prefer to have at least, 4- 650s, one- 1k, one- 2k, a box of practicles- different sizes, and some china balls that can take what I need to throw in them (65 watt,35 watt, ect...) I always have a box of misc instruments just incase, (smith victors,lowell totas, which i hate with all my being. but come in handy once in a blue moon) I even have some sunguns that I pull out on occasion for night ext shots to simulate different types of lighting effects.
I LOVE LIGHTING, I could talk about lighting setups, and watch pro gaffers work all day, I just love it. To me it's the one most important aspect of filmmaking that never gets old or boring or stale. It's the paint we use for our brushes. There's times where I appreciate guys that work with nothing but available light. but much of the time it has that uncontrolled look that comes off as desperate. I don't know, I don't want to be critical, cause there's been plenty of times where I didn't have an option to light with anything but an nd filter, iris, and shutter speed. which is not lighting but you get the point. And it sucks. I guess thats why I specialize in narrative filmmaking. God bless those event guys that never have a choice of the matter. must be incredibly frustrating.
So fo me, I prefer to have at least, 4- 650s, one- 1k, one- 2k, a box of practicles- different sizes, and some china balls that can take what I need to throw in them (65 watt,35 watt, ect...) I always have a box of misc instruments just incase, (smith victors,lowell totas, which i hate with all my being. but come in handy once in a blue moon) I even have some sunguns that I pull out on occasion for night ext shots to simulate different types of lighting effects.
I LOVE LIGHTING, I could talk about lighting setups, and watch pro gaffers work all day, I just love it. To me it's the one most important aspect of filmmaking that never gets old or boring or stale. It's the paint we use for our brushes. There's times where I appreciate guys that work with nothing but available light. but much of the time it has that uncontrolled look that comes off as desperate. I don't know, I don't want to be critical, cause there's been plenty of times where I didn't have an option to light with anything but an nd filter, iris, and shutter speed. which is not lighting but you get the point. And it sucks. I guess thats why I specialize in narrative filmmaking. God bless those event guys that never have a choice of the matter. must be incredibly frustrating.