What do Directors expect from their DPs?
- Thread starter imageonepictures
- Start date
imageonepictures said:
What you need is good camaera operator and a very good gaffer, not a DP. Also, why would you ever hire someone "off the street" THis guy didnt have a reel? you have toremeber if youre Hiring a DP, his job is to put the script on film. you can tell him what youre looking for, but ultimatly, thats the job titile. If you want full controll dont hire a DP.
Tlalconetl
Well-known member
To do what I say.
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
Especially for music videos, I like a DP who I can bounce crazy ideas off and who will throw them back at me with something extra, and I like to collaborate well before the shoot and really come up with some great ideas together. I have the initial concept, what I want to see, what I'm thinking, etc., and then I love a DP who doesn't want to take charge of my project, but who begins sentences with, "What about..." and "You could..." and gives me some more ideas to play with. That's awesome. That's exactly what happened on my last video and it was so much stronger because of that. We came up with a lot of the finer points together, and it was a collaborative process as film really should always be.
I let my DP have quite a lot of creative freedom, though, I don't control every shot. I know what I want to see and describe it but am open to changes, and especially during performance footage I give advice and ideas, but honestly any DP I work with will (must) have more experience than me. In fact I'd prefer they have about 10 times as much experience, quite literally, because I haven't gained enough experience to know everything that might look great, I like to play, and if the DP wants to play and experiment a bit that's fun, time allowing. Otherwise I know exactly what types of shots we need, beyond what we need it's about what would be cool, what do we have time for, what can we do in this location that might be especially effective.
I don't want a DP who starts calling things out to my actors, or who tries to take control. I'm the director and I want to be free to direct. But I don't want someone so hands off they think the project is just mine, and take no ownership of it. I want people at the top of the crew list (and if you're lucky everyone!) to take some ownership of the project, throw their passion into it, because the efforts of many talented people CANNOT HELP but be better than the vision of just one person. As long as everyone's ideas are filtered through one person, the director, and that person has a clear vision and is able to make disparate ideas work together effectively, that's directing to me. So that's what I want from my DP.
Also I see my job as a director as being more about influencing every part of the project slightly, rather than an overbearing control of every aspect. In other words, I don't edit my own projects, I don't select every shot, I let my editor play, but I help massage that final edit into what I want to see, I make suggestions that change the way the project is put together, and I explain from the start what I'm going for and let my editor play around a bit, too. Same thing with a DP. I don't want to have to explain every detail. I have a shotlist, I know what I want, but I like to see how the DP wants to set things up or light them within my basic confines so there's always room for creativity.
I think that's my favorite part of directing, I don't have to be mostly responsible for anything whatsoever, but I have to be partially responsible for absolutely everything. It's a tough job on one hand because nobody puts more time into a project than a director except maybe the producer (I have often produced, co-produced at least, and directed the same project, which is a pain), but it's a great job on the other because it's like being a coach of a team. If I get a great team together and I give them professional equipment, then all I have to have to get a great product is that great idea. Because I know that with a great team, they'll pull off my idea as I have envisioned it or better, and the biggest element of that is my DP.
It's interesting when the average person is like, "So you directed the music video, wow you did a great job on shooting it!" I am like, "No I didn't shoot any of that." "Oh... well what did you do then?" "I directed it." "What does that mean?" haha, it's like the director doesn't shoot it, doesn't edit it (on most professional projects), doesn't act in it (usually), doesn't setup the lighting equipment, etc. But take my last project, even though the reason it was really great is because we had such a great team, there is no project without me. Without that idea, without me finding that band and coming up with that idea and putting the work into finding a good team (and my DP found his team), there's no project. So it's ultimately very satisfying despite not "doing" any one thing, yet ultimately every part of the project has my signature on it because I made the final decisions that led to its creation. My DP has to be understanding of my ideas, too, and supportive of what I want to accomplish, because if there's one person I need to believe in me it's the DP.
I let my DP have quite a lot of creative freedom, though, I don't control every shot. I know what I want to see and describe it but am open to changes, and especially during performance footage I give advice and ideas, but honestly any DP I work with will (must) have more experience than me. In fact I'd prefer they have about 10 times as much experience, quite literally, because I haven't gained enough experience to know everything that might look great, I like to play, and if the DP wants to play and experiment a bit that's fun, time allowing. Otherwise I know exactly what types of shots we need, beyond what we need it's about what would be cool, what do we have time for, what can we do in this location that might be especially effective.
I don't want a DP who starts calling things out to my actors, or who tries to take control. I'm the director and I want to be free to direct. But I don't want someone so hands off they think the project is just mine, and take no ownership of it. I want people at the top of the crew list (and if you're lucky everyone!) to take some ownership of the project, throw their passion into it, because the efforts of many talented people CANNOT HELP but be better than the vision of just one person. As long as everyone's ideas are filtered through one person, the director, and that person has a clear vision and is able to make disparate ideas work together effectively, that's directing to me. So that's what I want from my DP.
Also I see my job as a director as being more about influencing every part of the project slightly, rather than an overbearing control of every aspect. In other words, I don't edit my own projects, I don't select every shot, I let my editor play, but I help massage that final edit into what I want to see, I make suggestions that change the way the project is put together, and I explain from the start what I'm going for and let my editor play around a bit, too. Same thing with a DP. I don't want to have to explain every detail. I have a shotlist, I know what I want, but I like to see how the DP wants to set things up or light them within my basic confines so there's always room for creativity.
I think that's my favorite part of directing, I don't have to be mostly responsible for anything whatsoever, but I have to be partially responsible for absolutely everything. It's a tough job on one hand because nobody puts more time into a project than a director except maybe the producer (I have often produced, co-produced at least, and directed the same project, which is a pain), but it's a great job on the other because it's like being a coach of a team. If I get a great team together and I give them professional equipment, then all I have to have to get a great product is that great idea. Because I know that with a great team, they'll pull off my idea as I have envisioned it or better, and the biggest element of that is my DP.
It's interesting when the average person is like, "So you directed the music video, wow you did a great job on shooting it!" I am like, "No I didn't shoot any of that." "Oh... well what did you do then?" "I directed it." "What does that mean?" haha, it's like the director doesn't shoot it, doesn't edit it (on most professional projects), doesn't act in it (usually), doesn't setup the lighting equipment, etc. But take my last project, even though the reason it was really great is because we had such a great team, there is no project without me. Without that idea, without me finding that band and coming up with that idea and putting the work into finding a good team (and my DP found his team), there's no project. So it's ultimately very satisfying despite not "doing" any one thing, yet ultimately every part of the project has my signature on it because I made the final decisions that led to its creation. My DP has to be understanding of my ideas, too, and supportive of what I want to accomplish, because if there's one person I need to believe in me it's the DP.
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JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
haha, wow. I don't want to be a DP. I hire a really good DP and trust him with my visual image. I even like a DP who I can bounce story ideas off of. At first, I thought, "God am I relying too much on my DP? Should I make absolutely every decision otherwise I'm not a real director?" Then I started reading a lot of interviews with big music video directors and realized it's very common to have that type of collaboration and teamwork between them, deciding what will look cool, what will work visually, etc. It's a great deal. I like to let my DP be creative, kind of explain what I'm going for in a broad sense and what my budget is like and let him play. I think it also excites a DP more, like, "Oh sweet I get to be creative here, I'm not just going to be told what to do!" I don't tell people what to do in their positions, if I hired them there's a reason they are doing that job and it's because they are better at it than I am. I think the key is to hire people you trust and let them be creative and help you.
This idea that some low budget, indie filmmakers get that nobody can be trusted and they MUST do absolutely everything is really absurd. There's a further idea that you're not really a filmmaker (on the indie scene) unless you can do it all, and in fact do it all, like shoot, direct, edit, do your music, etc. I think that's absolutely absurd. I've never heard of one person who is the best director, the best editor, and the best DP in the world. Or even someone who is great at them all. More like competent at them all. Much better to be great at one and hire other people who are great in their roles. This isn't golf. This isn't writing a book (and I've written two). This is filmmaking, a collaborative medium that takes a team of professionals who are creative and resourceful to make the best work.
This idea that some low budget, indie filmmakers get that nobody can be trusted and they MUST do absolutely everything is really absurd. There's a further idea that you're not really a filmmaker (on the indie scene) unless you can do it all, and in fact do it all, like shoot, direct, edit, do your music, etc. I think that's absolutely absurd. I've never heard of one person who is the best director, the best editor, and the best DP in the world. Or even someone who is great at them all. More like competent at them all. Much better to be great at one and hire other people who are great in their roles. This isn't golf. This isn't writing a book (and I've written two). This is filmmaking, a collaborative medium that takes a team of professionals who are creative and resourceful to make the best work.
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Bravo JonathanLB!
I completely agree with your approach to the craft. When I first began working on my projects I thought that I needed complete control and ultimately the work suffered.
I found myself coming up with all of these "cool" shots and ignoring my actors.
I've realized that a good director trusts others to do their job(s); in other words.... moviemaking isn't a "one man band"; a point which you've articulated very well.
I completely agree with your approach to the craft. When I first began working on my projects I thought that I needed complete control and ultimately the work suffered.
I found myself coming up with all of these "cool" shots and ignoring my actors.
I've realized that a good director trusts others to do their job(s); in other words.... moviemaking isn't a "one man band"; a point which you've articulated very well.
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
I think at first that's everyone's attitude -- do it all yourself, you know what you want, so you have to do it. Haha, it's kind of funny. I learned a lot in a pretty short time and was able to say on each shoot, "Oh, THAT'S why they have this position." Like I at first thought for indie filmmaking, "1st A.D.? What a stupid job, that's not important on low budget work." Then I had a 1st A.D. on my last music video and I don't know how it would have been possible with the crew size we had to shoot without him. He was an invaluable piece of the puzzle, being able to go to him for everything I wanted done basically was great. I'd say, "Can we get the set decorators over to the next location?" He gets on his walkie, tells them where to go. I ask if we can get a PA to do this or that, he makes it happen. He watched the time and helped keep everyone on task. He basically was the man on set, as far as logistics, making everything happen smoothly. Now I dread having to do a shoot where we don't have the budget or crew for a 1st A.D. It's going to be like, Oh... this again.
I guess it's only natural when you're starting out to have that rebellious, "Whatever, Hollywood does its own thing, I'll do things however I want!" But as you progress you kind of realize that these positions exist for a reason and they've been around for a long time. They wouldn't exist without purpose.
Actually I realized how important a 1st A.D. was on my first music video, when we didn't have one, and my DP took a year and a day to setup everything, and admitted to me he really wanted a 1st A.D. to keep him on task. He wasn't used to not having someone to crack the whip, apparently. But on the last shoot is where I really saw how valuable a 1st A.D. can be.
I guess it's only natural when you're starting out to have that rebellious, "Whatever, Hollywood does its own thing, I'll do things however I want!" But as you progress you kind of realize that these positions exist for a reason and they've been around for a long time. They wouldn't exist without purpose.
Actually I realized how important a 1st A.D. was on my first music video, when we didn't have one, and my DP took a year and a day to setup everything, and admitted to me he really wanted a 1st A.D. to keep him on task. He wasn't used to not having someone to crack the whip, apparently. But on the last shoot is where I really saw how valuable a 1st A.D. can be.
Tim Naylor
Veteran
Have you hired many DP's? Sounds like you had a bad marriage and it's reflecting badly on the rest of us. Most directors do hire good DP's for their experience and creativity. Your attitude as stated, would only attract hacks or the desperate.
Good Dp's try to stay clear of insecure ego-maniacs and people who won't let them enhance their "vision" (whatever that is). If you were secure in your "vision" you would be open minded enough to recognize that you hire specialist because they are better than you at certain things. A production designer know more than you about building sets; a sound man knows how to mix clean levels better than you; a DP knows alot more about lighting and lenses than you (or should). I expect the director to know how to coordinate all these departments, maximize what they have to offer and lead the crew into telling a story.
A director in a technical sense stages the action , breaks the script down into shots, and supervises the dramatic and aesthetic tone of the shoot. In the real world a director does what they know how - which may just stop at staging actors and the DP often becomes the insurance policy filling in the gaps for their lack of knowledge. Many of us haven't the opportunity to work with a complete creative soul as yourself, so please understand the context we come from.
Which is that most seasoned DP's have worked many times more production days than most directors. By that virtue alone they bring a wealth of experience and are conditioned to expect you, the director, to exploit it. I'd say for every 20 days I've been on set, most directors have worked one. I say this because, there's at least 20 times the number of people trying to direct as DP. Been that way since film school.
Back on Topic though. Having done both (direct and DP), what I look for in a DP depends on the project and what knowledge I bring to the table. I've minimal technical expectations: good exposures, lighting continuity, things in focus, etc. But on a creative level, it depends on the nature of the project (feature or commercial). For feature, I expect the DP to know the script and have a sense of drama and visual storytelling. I loathe DP's that obsess over technical minutia and toys yet are clueless over what's dramatically vital. If it's a commercial or video, I want aesthetic/technical obsession as because the dramas already been boarded, it's now a matter of capturing the images as cinematically as possible.
Tim Naylor
Veteran
Another thing that's expected of DP's is that you do hire your own crew. No self - respecting DP uses an AC or a Gaffer that the director imposed on them. When you hire a DP, you hire their system of working. DP means Director of Photography. We direct the photography, to do so, we have to hire the key personnel who execute the camera and lighting. Why? Because were accountable for the photography.
If I had to use the camera and lighting crew you impose upon me, when the image is soft of the lighting takes too long, ...
Ah forget about it. What's the point of explaining this to someone who just doesn't get it.
Tim Naylor
Veteran
Let's start a thread - What a DP should expect from a Director.
- Never to use the phrase "my Vision". Never has a pretentious and vague load of cod swallop ever emit from a directors mouth. Instead of you "vision" like you just heard a burning bush talk or had peyote in the desert, tell me how you want it to look and feel.
- Never utter the phrase "Let's lets just shoot it". It immediately tells the crew your ok with merely ok.
- Never whine like a little beetch in front of the crew. After all you are our fearless leader
- To know when your covered on scene.
- To know how to quickly stage the action
- To be able to tell me what's most important in the scene/shot
- To hire a great AD. Good luck.
- To know what everyone on the crew actually does. If I could slap a director every time he calls an electric a gaffer, I'd have no skin left.
- Cast amazing actors. No matter how good the script is, if your actors suck the news spreads right down to craft services and we all resign ourselves to working just for the pay.
- Get a screenwriter to re-write your amazing story. In short, too many "director-writers", write things that can't be shot. Just write what we see or hear. Nothing more because we can't shoot it.
- Learn to give simple direction to cast and crew.
- Don't playback every take - we got a train to catch.
- And stand tall, drop your shoulders and keep your back straight. You'll be amazed how much more respect you get.
- Don't mumble. Your job is to articulate your "vision" (that word again). Speak clearly and your "vision" becomes clear to us. You'd be amazed at how many directors can't pronounce their own names.
- Don't get caught in the blame game thing. You don't like someone's work - talk to them offset.
- DOn't berate your crew publicly, especially if your not paying much.
- You better not make me wait a year to get clips for my reel. I know where you live.
- Never to use the phrase "my Vision". Never has a pretentious and vague load of cod swallop ever emit from a directors mouth. Instead of you "vision" like you just heard a burning bush talk or had peyote in the desert, tell me how you want it to look and feel.
- Never utter the phrase "Let's lets just shoot it". It immediately tells the crew your ok with merely ok.
- Never whine like a little beetch in front of the crew. After all you are our fearless leader
- To know when your covered on scene.
- To know how to quickly stage the action
- To be able to tell me what's most important in the scene/shot
- To hire a great AD. Good luck.
- To know what everyone on the crew actually does. If I could slap a director every time he calls an electric a gaffer, I'd have no skin left.
- Cast amazing actors. No matter how good the script is, if your actors suck the news spreads right down to craft services and we all resign ourselves to working just for the pay.
- Get a screenwriter to re-write your amazing story. In short, too many "director-writers", write things that can't be shot. Just write what we see or hear. Nothing more because we can't shoot it.
- Learn to give simple direction to cast and crew.
- Don't playback every take - we got a train to catch.
- And stand tall, drop your shoulders and keep your back straight. You'll be amazed how much more respect you get.
- Don't mumble. Your job is to articulate your "vision" (that word again). Speak clearly and your "vision" becomes clear to us. You'd be amazed at how many directors can't pronounce their own names.
- Don't get caught in the blame game thing. You don't like someone's work - talk to them offset.
- DOn't berate your crew publicly, especially if your not paying much.
- You better not make me wait a year to get clips for my reel. I know where you live.
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