Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
I think it’s premature to think fraud will cause the closure of Michigan’s incentive program. Despite the wrongdoing, no rebate was paid. The system worked and the alleged fraud was caught before a rebate was given out.
What are set fees: Producer or Executive Producer
- Thread starter Belief Pictures
- Start date
I think it’s premature to think fraud will cause the closure of Michigan’s incentive program. Despite the wrongdoing, no rebate was paid. The system worked and the alleged fraud was caught before a rebate was given out.
I don't think it's premature to think that when a friend who is a Mo senator tells me it's a good possibility they will shut it down because there are to many loop holes in it.
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
lol, i should have expected that.
i have more to say but it would get very political very quickly. so i won’t.
i have more to say but it would get very political very quickly. so i won’t.
Patryk_Rebisz
Veteran
Drew, your questions doesn't really make sense. Are you planing to do Superman 7 - a film that will have to appeal to everybody, more-or-less, to make its money back? Or are you making film that can be called a romantic comedy with action scenes and horror traits that's done in art house style?
Of course not. You are doing one of two things: trying to do what Hollywood does but for significantly less $ or are creating a film that in its eccentricity will only appeal to a very specific niche market, and for that you need to define that niche.
Of course not. You are doing one of two things: trying to do what Hollywood does but for significantly less $ or are creating a film that in its eccentricity will only appeal to a very specific niche market, and for that you need to define that niche.
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
Drew, if you're not spending much money, and you make a solid film, of course you can make your money back. It's honestly not that difficult to make back a few hundred thousand, provided you make a solid film. If it's a total pile of crap, then you're in trouble, but the key is to make something fun, interesting, and hopefully original that can find a good audience.
Zblock
Well-known member
Your absolutely right. I think this is where films usually fail. You can't "out-Hollywood" Hollywood. No matter what you can pull off, Michael Bay will probably be able to do it better.
I think sometime people succeed by trying though. Sometimes you can impress a lot of people by trying to get as close as possible to what the ol' H-wood does and it can lead to bigger/better/Higher $ projects.
Drew Ott
Wish I were banned.
My question contained no propositions contrary to your argument... I wasn't asserting anything at all in my post.
Patryk_Rebisz
Veteran
Drew, all i'm saying is that if you are making an indie film then you are creating something for a small niche audience. Period. "film without a niche genre" don't exist in the indie field.
Patryk_Rebisz
Veteran
Have you made a film before that brought back "a few hundred thousand"?
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
Yeah
Yeah
Well... I'm torn, because Patrick has a really good point that you shouldn't exactly try to make Transformers and out-Hollywood Hollywood, that is retarded, because that's absolutely right that Hollywood knows how to make big budget Hollywood films better than anyone.
That being said, I don't believe indie film means niche film that only a small group of people will like. I just made a romantic comedy that is more like a guy's romantic comedy, like Wedding Crashers or I Love You Man or Forgetting Sarah Marshall, etc. It's certainly a broad appeal film, it's not about a single mother in Somalia or something. I don't think in "indie terms" so I don't think of making a film that has a tiny little audience because I just have no interest in those types of stories.
I suppose my film is just quirky enough, though, that it isn't directly competing with every romantic comedy with A-list casts, etc. It is a unique film in that there isn't another movie with a plot similar to this. It's original and fresh as much as any film can be.
I wouldn't advise making an indie film that's really esoteric, but on the other side I wouldn't try to outdo your average Hollywood action film because it's not going to happen. You can compete on one level with any Hollywood film -- story. You can always make a competitive story because that part is free, it just takes talent.
Yeah
Well... I'm torn, because Patrick has a really good point that you shouldn't exactly try to make Transformers and out-Hollywood Hollywood, that is retarded, because that's absolutely right that Hollywood knows how to make big budget Hollywood films better than anyone.
That being said, I don't believe indie film means niche film that only a small group of people will like. I just made a romantic comedy that is more like a guy's romantic comedy, like Wedding Crashers or I Love You Man or Forgetting Sarah Marshall, etc. It's certainly a broad appeal film, it's not about a single mother in Somalia or something. I don't think in "indie terms" so I don't think of making a film that has a tiny little audience because I just have no interest in those types of stories.
I suppose my film is just quirky enough, though, that it isn't directly competing with every romantic comedy with A-list casts, etc. It is a unique film in that there isn't another movie with a plot similar to this. It's original and fresh as much as any film can be.
I wouldn't advise making an indie film that's really esoteric, but on the other side I wouldn't try to outdo your average Hollywood action film because it's not going to happen. You can compete on one level with any Hollywood film -- story. You can always make a competitive story because that part is free, it just takes talent.
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
Pretty much every producer I know has done that, and yes the company I am working with has made films for the $250K mark and sold them at well more than twice that. It's not rocket science.
Patryk_Rebisz
Veteran
Jonathan, reread what you wrote and you will discover certain irrationality in your statements. You claim (and this is not personal attract but rather using your case as an example) that you made a unique film but you use big titles to compare it to, no double in hopes to attract their audience, but if i'm into those films why should i bother taking chance on your film if i can go and watch any of the 3 titles you mention (or hundreds of others in similar genre) - especially since people who are into films like that aren't known for taking creative risks in their entertainment choices.
So the pop audience will pass over your film because there is just so many other choices the pop entertainment offers of productions that are just better done if for a simple reason of all the money behind those other films as opposed to yours. Or even the money that went for marketing to advertise the better budgeted productions.
Then what about the indie lovers...? Well, then your film is not unique enough (after all you use 3 pop films to compare it to) to satisfy their curiosity of esoteric entertainment, your film is just like many others out there thus why bother wasting the time if there are plenty of other more indie options out there in the indie niche?
So you will be stuck in this no-man land - your film being too Hollywood for the indie lovers and not Hollywood enough for anyone why enjoys Hollywood productions to care.
J.D.
Active member
Coming to this post late....forgive my spouting out.....
what I want to say is that anything is possible.
I've written and directed two feature films, the first one was 5 years ago with an under 20k budget, shot on the DVX, it made all its money back plus continues to make me money every now and then. I have a request to put it on Hulu right now.
This past spring I finished a SAG ultra low, with pros in key acting roles and in DP and Sound and more, I took it to cannes and I have one international distribution offer so far.
I have a friend who has sold 2 films to a major household name distributor, one that even your mom has heard of, the first film was made for under 2 million and the last one he made for 800,000, both films have name actors in it that you have heard of.
My point is, make the movie with the money you have. I see too many people holding out waiting for the stairs to align....and not making movies.
I look at film making as a ladder, I'm trying to make better and better films, increasing in quality each time.
JD
what I want to say is that anything is possible.
I've written and directed two feature films, the first one was 5 years ago with an under 20k budget, shot on the DVX, it made all its money back plus continues to make me money every now and then. I have a request to put it on Hulu right now.
This past spring I finished a SAG ultra low, with pros in key acting roles and in DP and Sound and more, I took it to cannes and I have one international distribution offer so far.
I have a friend who has sold 2 films to a major household name distributor, one that even your mom has heard of, the first film was made for under 2 million and the last one he made for 800,000, both films have name actors in it that you have heard of.
My point is, make the movie with the money you have. I see too many people holding out waiting for the stairs to align....and not making movies.
I look at film making as a ladder, I'm trying to make better and better films, increasing in quality each time.
JD
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
hey sorry i'm late getting back to you. it was my fiancée's birthday this weekend and we were more or less out of 3G and wifi range. Anyway, based on the parameters you describe, and accepting that it's extremely unlikely you'll get a distribution offer from a magnolia or similar, that leaves one with digital platforms and selling DVDs from your own store (or set-up on neoflix.com to fulfill dvd orders) for all reliable revenue streams. if you were to build a business strategy for your first feature solely around that, one could comfortably expect revenue in the ballpark of $30,000 in the first year. and significantly less in the second. so budget your production accordingly. if you had a sizable marketing budget, that would change things.
also, this does not account for having a runaway success. like the filmmaker who out his no stars feature-length comedy on Hulu with the word "Sex" in the title and claimed he made $1 million (his aggregator disputed this claim saying it was closer to $100,000). but the chances of that kind of success are one in a million.
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
haha, trust me I'm not worried about that at all. There is always a market for well made, entertaining films, for one.
But second I was only using a VERY broad genre as an example, I thought that was abundantly clear, but apparently not. What you're saying is, "You made a movie that is in this genre so why would anyone..." -- that makes no sense. I only was saying it's "like" those three movies in the sense that it's romantic comedy guys can enjoy. That's a HUGE genre of films, my film shares nothing in common with those three movies besides that. Really nothing at all, not even character-wise or story-wise. It's simply that it is a comedy, it has romantic elements, but not in the way that let's say You've Got Mail or Sleepless in Seattle or something does. It's not a chick flick, that's all.
I don't think anyone should be focusing on whether their movie is Hollywood or whether it's indie -- you should focus on making a great movie that appeals to a significant group of people, even if it's a niche group you should at least have a target audience of some sort, narrow or broad, and make a film accordingly.
I have said it before and I'll say it again -- most of the people here just don't have the channels to be taking significant risks, so they assume that nobody should take those risks. The people here act like it's climbing Everest to make a few hundred thousand on a film. Let me assure you it is not. It's actually like stepping over a puddle -- you should be able to do it if you're not partially retarded. But 99 out of 100 examples here are filmmakers who say, "Well my buddy Jim and I made this movie and we put our friends in the cast and we spent $10,000 and our film didn't sell. Therefore, making money on movies is impossible." No, it's not impossible. In fact, if you can make what looks like a $1 million film on a much lower budget, you can get paid accordingly and pocket a nice profit. Nobody says it happens immediately, though, a lot of times it takes a few years to rake in the cash, it's not usually so simple as here is a big check, there you go. But it's not as tough as people here make it out to be either, partially because there are so many idiots with a camcorder turning out crap that when you actually take a really good script, make a really good movie with real actors who have done real work, and then shoot it with a highly professional crew and knowledgeable producers, you are light years ahead of most indie productions.
I feel like a broken record but it's the same thing I've said before -- there is a huge difference between making a professional film in the professional world versus screwing around with a camcorder. Of course it's tough to make money screwing around with a camcorder, I totally agree with that. But don't confuse the two. They are not the same. It was something on this forum that discouraged me for a long time because everyone kept saying "it's impossible to make money on an indie film," which is nonsense, I know numerous producers who have made money on every project they've done because they grasp the concept of how to do things the right way. They work with highly talented people and have the connections to get the work in to the right distribution companies. Compare that to the average person who shoots in their backyard / home town and knows nobody in the industry. Of course it's tough to make it that way, no duh! lol
Belief Pictures
Active member
Barry,
I wished these kinds of incentives existed in Canada. We are planning to shoot "The Hope Giver" the first feature film by this new film company.
I wished these kinds of incentives existed in Canada. We are planning to shoot "The Hope Giver" the first feature film by this new film company.
Belief Pictures
Active member
Hey,
I appreciate everyone here and all the advice and tips! I do think this thread has got a little off topic. I was wondering in the case as an Executive Producer where I hire a Producer who I'd be co-producing with. If say we raised $100,000.00 or even $1,000,000.00. How much could I take as E.P.?
What about is I am the Director (which I am) and the Film Editor too. I also wrote the screenplay so how much do I sell the script aquisition rights? Keeping in mind I'll be working on this film for three long years starting very soon!
Chris
I appreciate everyone here and all the advice and tips! I do think this thread has got a little off topic. I was wondering in the case as an Executive Producer where I hire a Producer who I'd be co-producing with. If say we raised $100,000.00 or even $1,000,000.00. How much could I take as E.P.?
What about is I am the Director (which I am) and the Film Editor too. I also wrote the screenplay so how much do I sell the script aquisition rights? Keeping in mind I'll be working on this film for three long years starting very soon!
Chris
Barry_Green
Moderator
Canada has some of the most generous film incentives out there. Some provinces will rebate 55% of what you spend there. I'm not 100% up on it, but look around, because there's huge rebates available in Canada.