Well here's the new Canon

Well I think the canon is a pretty interesting camera. Very similar in specs and price to the F3. Colours might be a bit better. DR looks very good. Codec is slightly better, and form factor is smaller. So why not? We are seeing new cameras that exceed the predecesors every 9 months, which will be the time that went from Slog upgrade for the F3 to the C300 being sold on stores. THen by summer Sony will come up with something better and so on.

The scarlet price point of $10K sounds great BUT remember to add another $5K in accessories at least.
 
I think the F3 came out pretty unscathed. I still think it is the best bang for buck, unless you desperately need 4K.

Everyone is proclaiming a big win for RED (and it is impressive)... but the sensor crop kills it, for me. Any kind of overcrank means dropping to 2/3" or below (i'm not even sure the 4K mode is S35?). I'm in PAL land and doing 50p requires dropping down to 2K... which is very noisy and is around 1/2". I guess you could record from the HD-SDI of the Scarlet, but who knows what that spits out... i'm sure you will lose DR

I must say, I like the form factor of the Canon though.... Hopefully they rethink the price over the coming months, I think they just looked at the Alexa price and dismissed the F3.
 
Canon is in dreamland. If that thing was priced about the same as the AF100 or a couple grand higher, it would sell like hotcakes. Other than a better internal codec, I see that it has nothing over the F3 with S-LOG.
Plus, at that price, why would anyone not get the Scarlet instead? I ordered immediately last night--just the ability to shoot overcranked at LEAST at 1080 was enough for me. RED rocked it out with this one.
 
I never really thought about sensor crop, so your saying due to this at 2k you halve the low light ability due to only half the sensor being used? What about DR and DOF? Also I assume the focal length of the lens would also change accordingly? That all kind of sucks doesn't it?
 
The surface area loss is much greater than the resolution loss. For example if you go from 40x20 (800) to 20x10 (200). A much bigger loss.

You're going to loose light and DOF on a cropped sensor. Basically you're looking at a small sensor camera. Focal length won't change, the field of view changes. All you lens will look like tele's. I waited for years for a Scarlet. Now it just seems over hyped and over priced. I'm glad I didn't wait.
 
Last edited:
I just wanted a half descent cam that could over crank at least 50/60p at fullHD Or better. I figured scarlet would do that, and it does BUT at a fairly big penalty. Problem is none of the others offer it either, seems only the FS100 can do it but in a lowly 8 bit highly compressed codec :-(
 
F3 can do 1080/60p via Dual link HD-SDI

I still have until next year before I need to shoot anything.... But the F3 is still very much in my sights.
 
You shouldn't lose depth of field at all... It's still the same glass projecting the same image onto the same sensor. You just essentially cropping out a look around. A S35 lens should always give the same DOF no matter what. That is if I'm not entirely mistaken. If you switch lens to compensate for the change in FOV, then yes, DOF will change, because of the lens change, but not merely because of the crop itself.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread...ecting-FOV-DOF&p=768135&viewfull=1#post768135
 
Last edited:
Ah yes, sigh.... finally.... now people will finally realize that there is no super duper 5D Mark IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII to replace a camera that separately can stand to sell for $20k on its own. Amen.
 
Andrew McCarrick said:
You shouldn't lose depth of field at all... It's still the same glass projecting the same image onto the same sensor. You just essentially cropping out a look around. A S35 lens should always give the same DOF no matter what. That is if I'm not entirely mistaken. If you switch lens to compensate for the change in FOV, then yes, DOF will change, because of the lens change, but not merely because of the crop itself.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread...ecting-FOV-DOF&p=768135&viewfull=1#post768135
Click to expand...

But in practice, this means you *will* have to switch to wider lenses to get the same field of view, and therefore will get a deeper depth of field.
 
Don't forget, Red footage has to be debayered. If you record 2k images to get 60p the actual resolution will be more like 720p. 4k is really about 3.2k and 3k is about 2.2k resolution.
 
Duke M. said:
Don't forget, Red footage has to be debayered. If you record 2k images to get 60p the actual resolution will be more like 720p. 4k is really about 3.2k and 3k is about 2.2k resolution.
Click to expand...

That was for the Red One. The OLPF is apparently better on the Red Epic and Scarlet, and thus the 80% reduction is closer to 90%. Or that was what I saw recently somewhere.

So 4k is 3.6k, 3k is 2.7k, 2k is 1.8k (Close to 1080p), and 1k is .9k.
 
Viddovation said:
But in practice, this means you *will* have to switch to wider lenses to get the same field of view, and therefore will get a deeper depth of field.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and Scarlet was originally intended to be a 2/3" camera. So we're bitching that we have to window to essentially that to get those other frame rates? Frame rates like this would have been okay had it been a 2/3" camera, but now that it's a native 4k s35, a roughly 2/3" crop to get 1-60p is a big deal?

Just use less light, keep the lens opened as much a possible. Big deal...
 
Andrew McCarrick said:
Yeah, and Scarlet was originally intended to be a 2/3" camera. So we're bitching that we have to window to essentially that to get those other frame rates? Frame rates like this would have been okay had it been a 2/3" camera, but now that it's a native 4k s35, a roughly 2/3" crop to get 1-60p is a big deal?

Just use less light, keep the lens opened as much a possible. Big deal...
Click to expand...

It potentially is a big deal because competing cameras like the F3 can do it the right way at S35.

Granted - our info on the Scarlet X is a bit vague at the moment - but the general assumption is that it's less light sensitive than the PMW-F3. That means heavier duty lighting package requirements - and that's before I take your advice to shoot wide open.

Ultimately, the sensor crop is a disadvantage. It limits the users options. It forces work arounds if the look isn't the one desired.


Look - the Scarlet X has some mighty appealing specs in certain regards, but I'll take 1080 60p uncompressed at S35 over a sensor crop 2k 60p.
 
Viddovation said:
Granted - our info on the Scarlet X is a bit vague at the moment - but the general assumption is that it's less light sensitive than the PMW-F3. That means heavier duty lighting package requirements - and that's before I take your advice to shoot wide open.
Click to expand...

It's the exact same sensor as the Epic... Thus same latitude as the Epic, which is equivalent to the Red One MX, which came in at 11.9 stops. The F3 is 11.3. According to the Single Chip Camera Evaluation anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIiWStv2ANk&feature=related


And to be honest I'm now starting to change my mind here. Scarlet does seem to be lacking this one big feature.

Looks like Red's answer to this void is the Red One MX, but I thought they were killing it off.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top