Wedding tips

O

offbeatbryce

Well-known member
Hello,

I'm filming a wedding for a friend. He's not paying me as he can't afford much and he's also letting me film to get experience for weddings so that I eventually can hire to film weddings. I am looking for tips to get the best audio etc in a one time only event.

I talked to a few wedding videographers and I've gotten a few different answers such as not to use a wireless mic lav on the groom because interference can occur (actually have had wireless mic systems interfere several times) during the vows to having the bride and groom rerecord their vows later to sync back in the video. I don't know what to do about the minister though as he will be a one time thing and I can't really have access to him as easily after the wedding.

as far as my equipment here is what I have currently

2 canon xa25 cameras

1 Tascam DR44WL recorder

2 wired lavs

2 sony shotgun mics

2 tripods
 
I had a period of time, when I was starting out, when I shot loads of weddings.

Yeah, always prudent to have audio recording to it's own recorder, to minimize chances of interference or static.

Grooms are usually fine with wearing a lav, so are officiants. Also, sometimes you can tap into the PA system of the venue, which would give you a direct feed from all the mics in the venue. But even if you can do this, it's still prudent to lav the groom and the officient. This would mean two recorders.

If there is a separate area for speakers, try to mic that area as well. This way, if you can't tap into the PA system of the venue, you can get clean audio of the speakers. You can simply put a small hyper-cardioid mic on a little table-top stand on the pew/a/tar where they the speakers do their thing...if the church lets you. Alternatively, you can find out who all the speakers are, and mic them too...however, that can be cumbersome so it all depends how important that will be for your edit and for your friends/clients. Also, this would mean more recorders, so there's that.

For reception audio, it is usually a band or DJ who controls the sound, and it is easy enough to get a tap from their system. Just make sure you have all the possible audio jacks, because you never know what they will be able to accommodate (RCA/XLR/etc).

As far as the officiant, when you mic them, just plan in advance where they will leave your equipment afterwards, so you are not dependent on finding them after the ceremony.

Again, all this will depend on how much you are willing/able to do, but I hope it's helpful. Worst comes to worst, there have been scenarios where I've gotten away with just putting a lav on the groom. Not the best, but you know...sometimes that's all you can do.
 
This is more of a sound question than a cinematography question.

Don't use wireless? That seems like a pretty silly suggestion, but I know a few wedding videographers who have developed some pretty bad audio habits. They may also tell you simply to plant a recorder in the pocket of the groom, and of the officiant, with a lav feeding each. That opens up a host of other potential (irreparable) issues.

Wireless can fail, yes, but if you know how to find a clean frequency and you keep your receivers as line-of-sight as you can, you'll minimize the risk. The plus side of wireless, which is the most crucial piece of the puzzle, is that you can monitor as you record. You should always monitor your audio recording.

The planted recorders won't have risk of dropout like wireless does, but... you'll have no idea what you've recorded until it's too late. What if the person shifts around and stops the recording? What if the lav gets jostled out of place and comes unplugged? No, a wedding isn't a place where you can back up and do it again, but there are still ways to troubleshoot... and to take notes so there are no surprises in post.

If, instead, there's a house sound system and both the groom and officiant will be wearing wireless mic systems anyway, arrange with the house engineer to grab a board feed. A house feed recording mixed in with a little bit of "the room" from your shotgun mics or the stereo array on your Tascam can make for a perfectly usable end product.

Whether pulling from the house system or using your own, wireless is the way to go. Just have a backup in case the wireless does drop out at some point. A plant mic somewhere close to the front, cabled to a camera or recorder, can give you a decent failsafe.

You'll also need to account for other players: is someone reading, singing, etc.? Figure out who those people are and where they'll be standing to do what they do. Again, if there's a house system that's already got mic coverage there, grab a feed if you can. Otherwise, you'll need your own mic coverage.
 
Don't flame me for this, but when I hear, especially on threads related to things like shooting weddings, "Don't use wireless", it's usually coming from guys that use cheap wireless and have been burned. I live in the broadcast/network world and you live and die by wireless audio. That's why most of us are running Lectrosonics or similar that are designed for more demanding and critical use. We're also paying anywhere from $6K+ and up for something like an SR 2-ch set-up. One of my guys just priced out one of the new Lectro wideband systems and he said it was $9K.
 
Run&Gun said:
Don't flame me for this, but when I hear, especially on threads related to things like shooting weddings, "Don't use wireless", it's usually coming from guys that use cheap wireless and have been burned. I live in the broadcast/network world and you live and die by wireless audio. That's why most of us are running Lectrosonics or similar that are designed for more demanding and critical use. We're also paying anywhere from $6K+ and up for something like an SR 2-ch set-up. One of my guys just priced out one of the new Lectro wideband systems and he said it was $9K.
Click to expand...
As far as I know even the $9k wireless units don't have what I've always thought as a must have feature, which is to be able to change the transmitters channels, from the receiver (or perhaps a phone ap). During a wedding you can't simply stop the ceremony if you get interference. I don't think you're suggesting that a $9k wireless setup is immune from getting interference, and if it's not immune, then it may not be ideal for weddings where you can't stop things mid-ceremony. Couple that with that most wedding videographers aren't pro audio guys so may not know the ideal setup and frequencies when using wireless.

I use Sennheisser G3's for corporate and other work (or preferably booms or wired lavs, when possible), but for weddings I use pocket recorders with lavs. The Tascam DR-10 is probably the best of them. Lectro has a pocket recorder with timecode for about $750 which is probably more than most wedding shooters would want to spend.

And if you want the best of both worlds, Zaxcom has a hybrid wireless transmitter/pocket recorder which is super small, but costs around $2k (I believe just for the transmitter, so perhaps another $2k for the receiver) so again is above the budget of most wedding shooters.

Another benefit to pocket recorders is you have less gear to setup and worry about. No setting and checking channels, no attaching receivers to your ideally small and unobtrusive camera setup, or, if going off-camera (particularly if you shoot DSLRs), say to a Zoom or such, then you've now got two extra pieces of gear to setup and worry about, often working as a one-man-band. Pocket recorder is so simple, take it out, turn it on, press record, lav up groom and officiant, and good to go. It's certainly faster than setting up wireless, and speed of setup is important for weddings. Tascam DR-10 has a second -12 db track for safety, so it's not too difficult to get levels set correctly even though you can't monitor and adjust during the ceremony.

I don't get people who say, "But you can't monitor the audio." What good is monitoring the audio going to do if you can't fix it mid-ceremony? If anything it's going to do you bad to be able to monitor audio, because then you'll be tempted to waste time (not working cameras) to go monitor the audio, and if you hear anything that sounds bad (like clothing rustle, interference), you'll just think, "Can't do anything about that," and have just wasted 30 seconds not manning cameras.
 
I've also just read this https://www.fcc.gov/general/wireless-microphones-0 What wireless mic systems that are good could I buy or rent that don't have the frequency that's not allowed soon? I don't want to waste 1,000 plus or whatever on a system that won't be able to used in 2020 or earlier according the FCC article. I even googled wireless lavs and the only ones I found were for 600 MHZ range which is what is not allowed soon.



Bryce
 
It's true, monitoring sound is key. If you can have a wireless transmitter from the output of the pocket recorder, it would be a plus.

I also have to say that I use wireless more often than not. Plus, I'm not a sound person, so my experience is mostly on the videography side.

But to the OP, some good advice here, sounds like you will have all the things to consider and make your decision.
 
offbeatbryce said:
I've also just read this https://www.fcc.gov/general/wireless-microphones-0 What wireless mic systems that are good could I buy or rent that don't have the frequency that's not allowed soon? I don't want to waste 1,000 plus or whatever on a system that won't be able to used in 2020 or earlier according the FCC article. I even googled wireless lavs and the only ones I found were for 600 MHZ range which is what is not allowed soon.
Click to expand...

Yes, the 600MHz band (or most of it... there's actually a very small chunk in the middle that will remain open) is going away, as did the 700MHz band a few years back.

Sennheiser's A1 band runs from upper 400MHz to lower 500MHz. The A band is all 500MHz, and the G band runs right up to 608MHz, which is still legal. Any of those will do.

I'm still not willing to trust my work to the WiFi systems (RØDELink, Sennheiser AVX, etc.).
 
Alex H. said:
Yes, the 600MHz band (or most of it... there's actually a very small chunk in the middle that will remain open) is going away, as did the 700MHz band a few years back.

Sennheiser's A1 band runs from upper 400MHz to lower 500MHz. The A band is all 500MHz, and the G band runs right up to 608MHz, which is still legal. Any of those will do.

I'm still not willing to trust my work to the WiFi systems (RØDELink, Sennheiser AVX, etc.).
Click to expand...

considering I'm not getting paid for the wedding and it's a trial run to see how good it comes out I can't afford a wireless system. Are there any wired lavs that work with this? https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/699403-REG/Zoom_H1_H1_Ultra_Portable_Digital_Audio.html
 
I have to agree with using a "pocket recorder with lav" method. Having shot weddings for 20+ years, I can't tell you how many times the Groom's wireless mic, being monitored on headphones, would sound PERFECT...right up until the start of the vows, then completely go to heck! Disclaimer - No, I was not using high-end systems. Usually the couple turns to face one another for the vows, people shift around, and suddenly I'm losing what was a great, clean signal. And as others stated, what can you do about it? Can't stop the ceremony. Kind of ruins my day when monitoring live and hearing the vows ruined and knowing I'm helpless to fix it.

Many years ago, before Tascam and similar came out, the iRiver pocket recorder units were popular. Cheap and reliable, size of a pack of gum, and NEVER let me down. The argument that the Groom may turn it off (intentionally or accidentally) is weak. A wireless could also be turned off/unplugged. I put it on him maybe 10 minutes before ceremony, and engage the REC LOCK button so nothing can happen. Cable coming unplugged? No way. Have never had anything but perfect audio from my cheap little iRivers. Have 3 of them. One for Groom, one for podium for readings, and third goes on Minister or by musicians. Out of production probably 10-12 or more years now, but still working great.

Honestly, the officiant is usually standing right by the couple and the Groom's lav pics him/her up just fine. You will sometimes get "the wanderer" who walks all around while talking, then the Officiant mic would be quite helpful!

So mic the Groom for sure, possibly officiant. Find out if readings will take place, and where, and mic that location (podium?) as well. House feed? Sounds wonderful in theory, but highly unlikely to have anyone on premises that can approve that or assist, assuming you have proper adapters and such anyway. Not a reliable option at most venues. You MUST of course also record ambient sound, typically with on-camera mic. Don't rely on lavs alone, will sound very strange for music and applause and such. Note that a few churches will actually have a sound technician on duty and they might have the ability to record a CD for you, check ahead of time.

Reception - always use headphones to check audio. Easy to end up with overblown audio that is useless/junk. Just because the meters are moving on the camera doesn't mean the sound it usable. I've tried connecting to DJ feed a few times, but again, having right connections and such can be a pain. I've had good results using on-camera mic, volume adjusted properly and works fine for speeches and music. But for some, combining DJ feed and maybe wiring people up for speeches is their thing. Whatever works for you. I always tried to keep it simple and have gotten good results with natural audio.

I wish you well with the endeavor. Preparation is everything, LOTS of batteries for cameras and lights, test test test and try not to get flustered if things don't go right, just do the best you can and move on. Wedding videography is not for the faint of heart. And I have to mention this, because I've seen it done by newbies - NEVER stop the cameras during the ceremony. Syncing up later will be a nightmare. Early in my career, I did once double-tap the REC button and missed filming part of the processional (wed party, not Bride). Re-staged a few couples after ceremony, and shot them from a lower angle so as not to show the empty pews ;-)

Thanks

Jeff
 
Eric Coughlin said:
As far as I know even the $9k wireless units don't have what I've always thought as a must have feature, which is to be able to change the transmitters channels, from the receiver (or perhaps a phone ap). During a wedding you can't simply stop the ceremony if you get interference. I don't think you're suggesting that a $9k wireless setup is immune from getting interference, and if it's not immune, then it may not be ideal for weddings where you can't stop things mid-ceremony. Couple that with that most wedding videographers aren't pro audio guys so may not know the ideal setup and frequencies when using wireless.

I use Sennheisser G3's for corporate and other work (or preferably booms or wired lavs, when possible), but for weddings I use pocket recorders with lavs. The Tascam DR-10 is probably the best of them. Lectro has a pocket recorder with timecode for about $750 which is probably more than most wedding shooters would want to spend.

And if you want the best of both worlds, Zaxcom has a hybrid wireless transmitter/pocket recorder which is super small, but costs around $2k (I believe just for the transmitter, so perhaps another $2k for the receiver) so again is above the budget of most wedding shooters.

Another benefit to pocket recorders is you have less gear to setup and worry about. No setting and checking channels, no attaching receivers to your ideally small and unobtrusive camera setup, or, if going off-camera (particularly if you shoot DSLRs), say to a Zoom or such, then you've now got two extra pieces of gear to setup and worry about, often working as a one-man-band. Pocket recorder is so simple, take it out, turn it on, press record, lav up groom and officiant, and good to go. It's certainly faster than setting up wireless, and speed of setup is important for weddings. Tascam DR-10 has a second -12 db track for safety, so it's not too difficult to get levels set correctly even though you can't monitor and adjust during the ceremony.

I don't get people who say, "But you can't monitor the audio." What good is monitoring the audio going to do if you can't fix it mid-ceremony? If anything it's going to do you bad to be able to monitor audio, because then you'll be tempted to waste time (not working cameras) to go monitor the audio, and if you hear anything that sounds bad (like clothing rustle, interference), you'll just think, "Can't do anything about that," and have just wasted 30 seconds not manning cameras.
Click to expand...

No sir, not trying to say that any wireless is immune from hits, dropouts, interference, etc. Just saying that if you're gonna use wireless, use a more robust, reliable and powerful system. Play the odds. I'd use 250mW Lectro belt packs and shark fins and try to make sure I was the strongest RF in there. I'd "take control" of the venue, if possible, especially if it was a church and have them shut off any wireless that was not 100% necessary(like wifi). Coordinate freq's(i.e: check out what is being used by the church, dj, etc.). Have audio going to a central spot and recorded and TC jammed cameras. Oh yeah, have a dedicated audio guy. If they don't have the budget, aim for the market that does. I read one of your posts where you described what all you did on a typical wedding shoot and I have zero desire to do that. ZERO. A few of the guys I shoot with have recently brought up shooting some of the high-end "wedding story" type video. Sitting at the NFL game in the press box yesterday, my audio guy shows me the video from one of his friends "weddings. This was a, probably, quarter million dollar plus wedding and the few minute video was probably another $20K-$25K. I MIGHT could get involved with one of those, but we're talking about $20K+ budgets, 4-5 member crews(or larger) and what is essentially a wedding being "performed" for camera and not some crotchety old minister relegating the "camcorder" to the back of the church so you don't disturb "his" ceremony.

You do bring up a GREAT point though: "Couple that with that most wedding videographers aren't pro audio guys so may not know the ideal setup and frequencies when using wireless." If you're going to use the gear, LEARN how to use it properly or hire someone else that does.

We should be encouraging people to raise their talent and skill levels, not settle for mediocrity.

One other thing... Yes weddings are "one off" events that you can't stop if something is wrong, but we do so much in the TV world that is "one take" also, so don't try to make it sound like someone's wedding(while it is important to them and should be to you, too, if they're your client) is more important than the five minutes we may get with some professional athlete, celebrity or politician for a shoot and everything must work perfectly, as well. As a professional, it's ALL important.
 
I've filmed perhaps 150 weddings. For cheap lavs I have a few of these Azdens which work with the Zoom recorder.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/89741-REG/Azden_EX_503_EX_503_Lavalier_Mic.html

It's a bottom of the barrel lav mic, so audiophiles probably hate it, but it's good enough for wedding clients, generally speaking.

I have Countryman B3 and B6 mics I use with my audio recorders which I had to custom order from Countryman (through B&H) to get the right connector to use with a pocket recorders. The Azdens I only use rarely when all of my other mics are in use, but I think they're fine for a cheap starter lav.

I always mic both the groom and officiant; can't imagine doing otherwise. Every rare once in a while a priest for example may not want to be miced; just make sure to approach people saying you need to lav them, instead of starting out your conversation asking if you can lav them, and you'll be less likely to be rejected. I often assure the groom that my mics are not going out to the loud speaker sound system, and anything he says before and after the ceremony is going to be edited out, which makes him more at ease with being miced.

For my first wedding I rented two Sennheiser wireless at $60 each for the rental. If you only have one lav setup, best to ask someone (such as the officiant) who will do the most speaking. You don't want to put your one and only mic on the groom if it turns out his only line of dialog is "I do," which is sometimes the case, while the officiant then speaks for the whole ceremony, but at a 10 foot distance from the groom. But if the bride and groom are saying personal vows to each other, then sometimes better to mic the groom. But I'd highly recommend micing them both, even if it means spending a bit of money on a rental, as I see two mic setups as bare essentials for a wedding.

Sometimes I'll mic a reader if there is one, particularly if I'm aware of it, and if there's a podium they're reading from, I'll always put a mic on the podium.


SHARBOR said:
So mic the Groom for sure, possibly officiant. Find out if readings will take place, and where, and mic that location (podium?) as well. House feed? Sounds wonderful in theory, but highly unlikely to have anyone on premises that can approve that or assist, assuming you have proper adapters and such anyway. Not a reliable option at most venues. You MUST of course also record ambient sound, typically with on-camera mic. Don't rely on lavs alone, will sound very strange for music and applause and such. Note that a few churches will actually have a sound technician on duty and they might have the ability to record a CD for you, check ahead of time.

Reception - always use headphones to check audio. Easy to end up with overblown audio that is useless/junk. Just because the meters are moving on the camera doesn't mean the sound it usable. I've tried connecting to DJ feed a few times, but again, having right connections and such can be a pain. I've had good results using on-camera mic, volume adjusted properly and works fine for speeches and music. But for some, combining DJ feed and maybe wiring people up for speeches is their thing. Whatever works for you. I always tried to keep it simple and have gotten good results with natural audio.
Click to expand...
I always plug into an audio board when possible, which is about 65% of the time for the ceremony, and 95% of the time for the reception. Bringing different audio cables is a pain? Really? I mean, it's part of the job. Spend around $50 to get a 3-6 foot 1/8" cable, XLR cable, two RCA cables, and a 1/8" cable (rarely used). Doesn't take up too much space in your bag. Totally necessary to have, at least if you do weddings regularly. Maybe not a must have for a first wedding as there are other ways of getting reception audio. I recall it being a bit difficult to figure out which cables I needed when starting out, but I just said what is needed, so, it's all right there. Here, I'll even give B&H links to what you need. This is if you're going into an XLR recorder, such as the OP's Tascam DR44WL. I use a Tascam DR-40. I hate Zoom products, for the most part.

2 of these: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/133531-REG/Comprehensive_XLRP_PP_3ST_EXF_3_Pin_XLR_Male.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/999305-REG/pearstone_pm_trsxm03_pm_series_trs_m_to.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/866981-REG/Pearstone_pm_06_PM_Series_XLR_M.html

(Optional): https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1145662-REG/kopul_rsmxm_06_stereo_1_8_mini_male.html

16 + 7 + 9 + 12 = $44. The last one is optional, so, really $36, and you'll have three main cable types that will connect to most DJ audio boards. Every rare once in awhile the DJ won't have an output for you, so you can use a 1/4" or 1/8" splitter to split his headphone feed so one feed goes to you and one to him.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/252312-REG/Hosa_Technology_YXM_121_XLR_Female_to_2.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/134130-REG/Comprehensive_MP_2MJ_CS_Stereo_Mini_Male_to.html


I also often use an XLR splitter going to my Tascam DR-40 so I can set the left XLR to one db level and right XLR to a lower db level for safety. The DR-40 has a -12 db safety track, but this way I now have four db levels of safety which is even better.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/216447-REG/Hosa_Technology_YPP_118_1_4_Male_to_Two.html


In addition to the DJ feed and camera mics, I put a pocket recorder with a lav, tape the lav to the DJ's physical audio speaker (not to be confused with a human kind of speaker), and have that as a backup to the DJ's feed.

For toasts I used bring a mic stand, put the DJ's mic on my mic stand, while attaching a lav/pocket recorder to the mic stand, so I'd have my own feed of the speeches in case the DJ's goes bad. I found it to be a bit of a pain, as often the speaker wants to walk around with the mic, tries to take it off the stand (you can tape it in to avoid this), the DJ isn't always happy with that setup, etc. It is nice that it keeps the speaker in one place so focusing, angles, and lighting are all easier. Now a days I only do that setup though if I sense the DJ's setup is not good, but most cases the DJ has a pro setup that works well. There's always the camera mics in a worst case scenario.

Another method of backup I've seen people use (which I've done a few times with varying success) is to tape a pocket recorder (such as the Zoom H1n) to the DJ's mic, using the pocket recorder's internal mic, and have the speaker use that. I find it a bit clunky and ugly, so I haven't really used that method much, but it is a method some people use.

You can also lav up the key speakers, but that can be difficult, so I haven't done that in a long time; perhaps if there is no DJ and audio system at the venue and I didn't bring a mic stand I'd resort to that. The maid of honor is hard to lav since she's wearing a dress, sometimes random people come up and talk unexpectedly, etc.
 
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To the OP - if the church / venue doesn't have sound system to tap into - ask your friend to pay for a wireless rental. He / she will thank you later and it will be small $ well spent. Lens Rentals carry's the Sennheiser G3 system - Check your area's frequencies - which is a decent kit - me4 mic is decent as well. Get there early - test everything out and use both your cameras. Lock off one for "coverage" wide shot / something to cut to / diff angle (and back up audio with at least shotgun mics you have and / or multiple channel using wired mics too) while you run the other camera - monitoring audio from groom or officiant. Not that it's immune to interference - but the G3 can scan for clean frequencies. Test this well in advance and with any other wireless system in the church already turned on - especially if there is a rehearsal the night before. Wire the person early - and test hours before ceremony begins. Add fresh batteries to transmitter / receiver 15 minutes before start...
 
thanks

thanks

markfpv said:
To the OP - if the church / venue doesn't have sound system to tap into - ask your friend to pay for a wireless rental. He / she will thank you later and it will be small $ well spent. Lens Rentals carry's the Sennheiser G3 system - Check your area's frequencies - which is a decent kit - me4 mic is decent as well. Get there early - test everything out and use both your cameras. Lock off one for "coverage" wide shot / something to cut to / diff angle (and back up audio with at least shotgun mics you have and / or multiple channel using wired mics too) while you run the other camera - monitoring audio from groom or officiant. Not that it's immune to interference - but the G3 can scan for clean frequencies. Test this well in advance and with any other wireless system in the church already turned on - especially if there is a rehearsal the night before. Wire the person early - and test hours before ceremony begins. Add fresh batteries to transmitter / receiver 15 minutes before start...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestions. I might add that this isn't taking place at a church but outside under a gazebo.

My friend doesn't have money to hire a photographer either so he will have no money to rent equipment.
 
Run&Gun said:
No sir, not trying to say that any wireless is immune from hits, dropouts, interference, etc. Just saying that if you're gonna use wireless, use a more robust, reliable and powerful system. Play the odds. I'd use 250mW Lectro belt packs and shark fins and try to make sure I was the strongest RF in there. I'd "take control" of the venue, if possible, especially if it was a church and have them shut off any wireless that was not 100% necessary(like wifi). Coordinate freq's(i.e: check out what is being used by the church, dj, etc.). Have audio going to a central spot and recorded and TC jammed cameras. Oh yeah, have a dedicated audio guy. If they don't have the budget, aim for the market that does. I read one of your posts where you described what all you did on a typical wedding shoot and I have zero desire to do that. ZERO. A few of the guys I shoot with have recently brought up shooting some of the high-end "wedding story" type video. Sitting at the NFL game in the press box yesterday, my audio guy shows me the video from one of his friends "weddings. This was a, probably, quarter million dollar plus wedding and the few minute video was probably another $20K-$25K. I MIGHT could get involved with one of those, but we're talking about $20K+ budgets, 4-5 member crews(or larger) and what is essentially a wedding being "performed" for camera and not some crotchety old minister relegating the "camcorder" to the back of the church so you don't disturb "his" ceremony.

You do bring up a GREAT point though: "Couple that with that most wedding videographers aren't pro audio guys so may not know the ideal setup and frequencies when using wireless." If you're going to use the gear, LEARN how to use it properly or hire someone else that does.

We should be encouraging people to raise their talent and skill levels, not settle for mediocrity.

One other thing... Yes weddings are "one off" events that you can't stop if something is wrong, but we do so much in the TV world that is "one take" also, so don't try to make it sound like someone's wedding(while it is important to them and should be to you, too, if they're your client) is more important than the five minutes we may get with some professional athlete, celebrity or politician for a shoot and everything must work perfectly, as well. As a professional, it's ALL important.
Click to expand...
I worked with Ray Roman recently; one of the best known wedding guys in the U.S., charges around $10k-$30k per wedding. I can tell you, he doesn't hire a professional audio guy. Pretty much no one in the wedding industry does, including the top end wedding films and filmmakers. You can say they're doing it wrong, but I imagine they're doing it right, and you're just inexperienced at the best way to film weddings, since you don't film weddings. You start having too much crew for a wedding and the production turns into a circus. It's still a wedding, even if they're paying $25k for the video.

I've gone over to the Steadicam forum or such before and talked about using Steadicam without wireless follow focus, and heard responses such as, "So unprofessional!," etc. Even more unprofessional would be having a first AC pulling focus at every wedding. That would seem like a joke to me. Another joke would be having an audio guy using a boom pole, for a wedding. Most couples don't want a large crew at their wedding, regardless of budget. Well, unless it's say the queen's wedding, with a full live TV setup. But for celebrities, NFL players, etc., really gotta keep things in perspective.

And, you can't really "take control" at most venues. Walk into a church, ask the church lady, "Can I see the audio setup?" She says, "I don't know where it is. It may be in the back." So, you go to the back, eventually find it (if you're lucky), but find it is behind lock and key. Go back to the church lady, "Can I get into the audio box?" "I don't have the key. Louis might, but he's not here today." So, you take a sledge hammer, break into it, and "take control." About 20 minutes later, during the ceremony, you're dragged out of the church by the cops. I typically give up before the sledge hammer moment. Even if you take the time to scout the venue before the day, it's often likely that the venue will not give you the access you want to their audio setup. And the couple aren't going to change the venue just because of that.

I don't know of anyone in the wedding industry who uses timecode. As I started with weddings and moved into corporate work, I still find little reason for timecode. Just use Plural Eyes syncing software like wedding filmmakers do. It's simpler and quicker, I find. Now, for reality TV where you're recording lots of individual clips, I see timecode as more beneficial. Most audio you need to sync from weddings comes in a few 20-40 minute blocks, primarily, the ceremony and the reception speeches, for which Plural Eyes (or similar software) generally works fine. And then of course there's the fact that most wedding cameras don't have timecode jamming. I generally use my C100s for weddings and leave the C300s at home as the C300s are too large and heavy for wedding use. I mean, they work okay, but I prefer the C100s.

I often work with a camera/editor/producer guy who often hires a pro audio guy, and it's kind of funny how the pro audio guy always go to all these steps to get timecode jammed to the cameras, but then the guy who hired him, who edits the videos, generally doesn't even use timecode for syncing in the edit.
 
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As I said, I don't really give a flying F about doing weddings or how they are currently done. I was giving my feedback as a professional who has been doing professional production for 20 years. Also, never said a thing about having an audio guy running around with a boom pole.

If you're walking into a venue an hour before the wedding, yeah, you're probably at their mercy, but with pre-planning, I'm sure you can talk to the right people to co-ordinate things. The couple didn't just go up to the preacher after Sunday service and and say, "Hey will you marry us here next Saturday?". It has probably been planned for months or a year out. Sometimes you are "just stuck" with what you're given, but you'd be surprised what you can get just by asking. We walked into a bar/restaurant off the street cold, an hour before their lunch rush and the next thing you know our producer had secured their "back room"/bar and we were setting up a three camera shoot for a professional coach and talent, so I'm sure with a few weeks or months, you could work out something with a church, unless the couple waited until a few hours before the wedding to book you.

Again, as I've said before, perspective is affected by the world you live in. If you're shooting weddings and corporate and editing it all yourself, that's fine, but show up on a multi-cam network shoot and tell them you can't sync timecode on the cameras and audio files and you may not get called back.

I'd also argue that a lot of these weddings ARE, in-fact, circuses. Especially these stupid six figure weddings. They're not done for "love" or to "share the special day" with their friends and family, they are to show-off, plain and simple, so that's why I say it's a wedding performance. The video that my audio guy showed me, it looked like a cold open from CSI-Miami, because of the wedding venue and reception. The wedding and reception were so over the top, it was hard to believe that people do really spend that kind of money and have "weddings" like that. The only thing missing at the end of the video was the bride or groom laying in a pool of their own blood and then David Caruso whipping his sunglasses off and delivering a cheesy one-liner as The Who starts to play.

But we are getting way off course here...
 
offbeatbryce said:
My friend doesn't have money to hire a photographer either so he will have no money to rent equipment.
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I always tell my clients if you can't afford a wedding photographer than you can't afford to get married.

No, no, I don't tell them that. :P

That said, if you're looking to get into weddings, consider this a potential portfolio piece, he's not paying you a dime, and say $100 in rentals or specific purchases will make the wedding video significantly better (such as actually having good audio), then I'd think you should spend that money out of your own pocket. First wedding I did I got paid $400 for, spent maybe $100 on rentals, borrowed a couple cameras from friends, hired a couple friends for around $150 ($75 each), and made a whopping $150 in profit for a 10 hour shoot with 30 hours or so of editing. So, maybe $3.75 per hour of work.

I was working at a sandwich shop at the time, with my college film related bachelors degree, doing pretty much no video work as I couldn't find a job in my field. At that wedding I met the photographer, who was starting a video side to his business and ended up hiring me to film and edit many weddings for him for a long period of time. Continued building up my portfolio, started buying gear, grew the business, etc.

All got kick-started by that first wedding a friend of mine asked me to do. Moral of the story, if you're looking to get into weddings, be willing to invest some of your own money to try to make it good enough to get future work from. A first wedding is rarely about actually making a profit. It's an investment.
 
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offbeatbryce said:
2 canon xa25 cameras

1 Tascam DR44WL recorder

2 wired lavs

2 sony shotgun mics

2 tripods
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I guess you could put the Tascams on the officiant and the groom, with a wired lav running into each. It's weird, but you said you have no money.

If the lav is omnidirectional and high quality, then you could get away with miking one or the other. I used to do this, but I used very good gear: a Tram lav and Lectrosonics wireless. Then you could use the other to mic something else: the reader, the musicians, etc. But you also have your shotgun mics to help cover things, so that's good.

You could try patching into the board, as mentioned, but I never got the hang of it. Not only are there myriad jacks but also different power levels, and it seemed I needed pads and ground lifts and transformers and . . . I made A's and B's in school but I was always overwhelmed every time I tried to go down that path.


having the bride and groom rerecord their vows later to sync back in the video
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That sounds awful.

How do you get them to say them in sync? And even if you do, it will sound fake. Fake is not a style that fits well with wedding vows.

I, and all the wedding videographers I knew, used wireless lavs.
 
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Some great info in this thread.
I've been doing wedding videos for 22 years now. Most of mine are under $2000, though I offer $10,000 packages with jibs, drones and lots of cameras, etc.. So it's often just me working alone. I use a Sennheiser G3 wireless mic on the officient, sometimes paired with a Tascam recorder and I use a Tascam recorder on the groom. And I always try to tap into whatever audio system(s) is being used with an audio recorder also for redundancy. If the DJ is using a mic system for the officient, then I use a recorder for that and if the venue has a separate system for music I will also use one for that as well.
If it were a much bigger wedding, I'd use more wireless mics and more Tascam recorders.

I mix the audio in post according to what sounds best, and use Plural Eyes to sync in post.
In the old days I used to just use a wireless mic on the groom and officient. And in the even older days when I had only 1 wireless mic, that was all I used..on the officient as long as they were going to stand near the bride and groom. I'd have to boost up the bride and groom audio but it worked.
Plural Eyes is so much better than the old days when I had to manually sync!
 
combatentropy said:
"having the bride and groom rerecord their vows later to sync back in the video "
That sounds awful.
How do you get them to say them in sync? And even if you do, it will sound fake. Fake is not a style that fits well with wedding vows.
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I have done this, and it works okay just using it for the highlight video.
Its my last choice that I have to do this, coz the venue i shoot is fully equipped with big fans blowing all directions of a small room (20x30feet) filled with atlest 50-60 guests.

You might wonder why there is so many fans, coz I lived in asia. its pretty hot here. Even the small room have AC, but with that many ppl in the room temperature started to raise.
And the venue did not use any audio board, they just plug the wireless mic receiver into a home hi-fi player, and the wireless receiver only have 1 output. (ya its pretty suck sound system for a wedding venue)
no matter where I put my mics, there is the fan noise, I put the lav on the groom and it still getting a lot of fan noise.
 
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