Wedding & Event Evaluation

E

Evro

Well-known member
Okay so yesterday I spent 14 hours shooting a wedding with our new HMC152 for the first time so here is my evaluation for those that interested in buying this camera for shooting run & gun work.

Traditionally being a DVX user, we had to change to Canon & JVC when we went HD but this new HMC was our ticket back to Panasonic.

The first thing I noticed was how incredibly light this new cam is, after hand holding a Canon XH-A1 for the last 12 months. Also flying it hand held on a Glidecam Pro 2000 was superb!

To avoid problems Vegas Pro 8c I purposely shot everything in 1080/50i (yucky interlaced) because Vegas has some issues with Panasonic's long GOP 50P, hopefully an update fix is not too far away. Image wise the first thing I noticed was how much more lo-fi the image looks compared to my XH-A1 (I'm already aware that 720P is the camera's sweet spot and next weekend I'll try shoot everything in 720/25P). It's actually scary how much the interlaced footage looks like my old DVX footage.

Ergonomically everything was beautifull, except... the latch that releases the door to the SDHC card is soooooooo easy to accidentally open which stops the camera from recording OUCH!! Not a huge deal because it only takes a second to quickly close it and hit record again, but you really need to be carefull when doing hand held stuff (that's like 80% of my style) so I'm gonna have to put a piece of gaffer's tape over the door to stop it from popping open or alternatively I'll have to find a way to tape down the door switch so if the door does open the camera keeps recording.

It would have been nice to choose between running the EVF or LCD because at the moment they both run together which surely drains power unecessarily.

Another little pet peeve is that when performing hand-held rack focussing the manual focus ring is really slow requiring a lot of travel - would have been good to have a menu option that controlled the speed of the focus ring.

Also, I was using the external power supply at the Reception and on one occasion the power plug came out and I experienced first hand what happens when you loose power during recording. I was shooting the floorshow at the time and once I got the camera powere back up, it told me to repair the clip, which I did. The process took about 2 minutes to complete (the clip that got cut off was about 2.5GB) and I'm happy to say that everything was okay and I continued recording.

One thing I gotta say... the internal microphones are well, sorry to say this, but comapred to my Canon & JVC cams they're way below par in terms of clarity & sensitivity. Canon's XH-A1 mics are not only more sensitive but the audio is very crisp & clear. During the day I did a candid interview with the bride's father in a quiet room of the house and had the camera only about 21" (60cm) away from him. The recorded sound was very flat sounding with a lot of room ambience. I would definitely recommend using an outboard mic for vox pops or any serious audio work. The one good thing I liked about the built in mic was that it did not distort under high SPL sounds :)

Overall however, the best thing was no more capturing tape WOO HOO!!!
 
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Sounds good. The thing with the footage.. you should really try the 720 out it's wonderful. Your images will look much better than what you have now. Also with the sdhc card door... is it really that bad of a thing? I've shot at least 30 hours so far with the hmc and I've never once opened it by mistake.. how exactly did you manage to do that?
 
Thomas Lew said:
Also with the sdhc card door... is it really that bad of a thing? I've shot at least 30 hours so far with the hmc and I've never once opened it by mistake.. how exactly did you manage to do that?
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Thomas, after using the XH-A1 for so long I got used to holding it from the rear around the EVF for stability with low-angle shots. Over the course of the day my fingers would accidentally push the latch and the door would pop open - it hapened about 5 times. I concur with you though, for the majority of people who hold the camera the way the manufacturer intended it to be held this will not be a problem - I like to push my camerawork to xtremes and the lightness of the HMC150 only adds fuel to the fire :D
 
Ahhhhhhh it all makes sense now! lol

Yeah well if you hold it THAT way I can see how that would happen. I like to hold it by the handle with the eye piece up. Left hand undernearth to focus and stabalize.
 
Thanks for the evaluation. Very interesting, especially since I plan on shooting a more weddings now to get me through the lean times of the film season here (i.e. hurricane season! LOL) After shooting for years on my XL1s, I'm sure my shoulders and arms will be thanking me for the light HMC.

Piece of gaffers tape will fix that issue quickly and painlessly, yes? I use gaffer tape all over my current camera as eyeline marks and securing external equipment. So... no biggie there.

Thanks for the review!

Cheers,

David S. White
Penguin Productions, LLC

www.dreamsonfilm.com
www.youtube.com/dreamsonfilm
www.imdb.com/name/nm2590810
 
Question

Question

I have strongly been thinking about purchasing the Canon you mentioned. Would you recommend against it? I love the movie look & feel to the camera, is that obtained in the Panasonic.
 
IMHO the big advantage for this camera for weddings is the ability to film a full catholic ceremony without changing tapes. Also, same day edits should be a lot easier to do than with tape.
 
Although we all have favourites, I did not hesitate to change to Canon & JVC when we went HD because Panasonic's P2 work flow & cost was not going to be a good business decision for us. After using a DVXs for 2 years of course I would have loved to stay with the Panasonic, but at the end of the day my business needs to sustain a profit for me to support my family. It was just lucky that Panasonic released this camera because in my opinion they alienated a lot of wedding and event people when their first step towards HD for the prosumer market was in the direction of P2.

Canon & Sony took away a large share of traditional Panasonic users with their XH-A1 & Z1 hopefully they'll now get back some of that share with the 150.

From a business perspective, this camera is perfect for weddings because it's cheap to buy, cheap to run, makes good quality images in low light, renders motion better than the all of the existing HDV cameras and you don't have to capture tapes :D

I see no economical reason for people to buy a camcorder that still shoots to MiniDV tape.
 
Some really nice points in your review... Personally not sure how that door would pop open... but again I'm an HVX user for almost 3 years... It's birthday will be in two months..


Panny might have alienated the wedding crowd and the event people, but that was greatly offset by how it took over the medium to high budget independent and corporate video market. I personlly bought the HVX because I was renting the Varicam and I knew it would be a badass camera for it's DVCPRO legacy and all that the varicam, jr kind of cam that it would be... Now with this cam you might be back to a great compromise. The lessons learned through both the HVX and the DVX... which were intended and used in different ways. The HMC does win on cost and price.. but that HVX workflow is hard to ever beat for reliability and speed..


Now for me, it's about getting longer record times.. that great panasonic look and a cleaner image than the old HVX.. I might get the 170 as I have a P2 investment, or I might get another one of these.


It is a great cam for a variety of applications so in times like this.. it might be wise to get the most bang for your buck and I can't see a difference in the footage.. other than the 150 being cleaner and faster...
 
Okay so here are two raw frame grabs from the wedding of the same scene shot by the A1 & HMC from different angles. Both were shot in 1080i and de-interlaced in Photoshop with no other processing. Both cameras were shooting flat on the Normal file setting.

Can you guess which one is the A1 & which is the HMC?

1227493768.jpg



1227493872.jpg
 
When I look at the little boy with the white shirt and tie, in the black pants, by the door, the nose on the boy seems less sharp in the upper photo, than the lower photo. Also, the noise level seems to be a bit less in the upper photo. (Look in the solid dark areas of the images.)


My guess is that the HMC-150 is the top image and the A1 is the bottom image.


Bob Diaz
 
The bottom one looks like it is the Canon, based on the color. Both are good, though. I too have an A1, and was wondering what your thoughts were on how the footage cuts together.
 
Justyn said:
look comparable for sure... which is which?
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i have to say i prefer the bottom image....

hmm.. but the blacks look better in the top. you can see the noise in the dark areas on the bottom pic.... the bottom is definitely canon.
 
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I have now shot two events with the HMC150 (in 720/60p and 720/30p) after shooting for nearly 2 years with the Canon XHA1. Getting the HMC150 was for me, a tough call, and I still think it was the right one.

The differences in design really are significant. I miss not having the iris ring on the lens, the 20X zoom, the huge batteries and mostly the ability to change looks at the touch of a button with the presets. (Actually the Panasonic does that too). The Canon also has that carved-from-a-single-piece-of-material feel to it. Plus it has a real lens shade.
But it also has a steep learning curve, and is really best when operated in manual mode. Whatever you do always shut off the AGC.

The HMC150 is an outstanding performer. It seems much easier to shoot. While there is a learning curve, I don't think it'll be as steep as was the Canon's. I can shoot the HMC150 on "automatic" and get good results. Not always so with the A1.

I love the Panasonic's much larger 31/2" lcd, the lighter weight is a bonus to me, as is having a 28mm wide angle equivalent lens. The real killer for me though, is the IQ....I have not seen my Canon ever shoot such clean, noise-free video. Well....OK, it can do it, but not as nicely as the HMC150.

So for now I will continue evaluating, and working to develop my new tapeless workflow. While I do miss elements of the Canon's design, I am finding a lot to appreciate in the Panasonic. No regrets here about the change, even if my lens shade falls off occasionally. Panasonic can you fix that design?
SW
 
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this is also a conversation i am also very much interested in


i also swapped over to a pair of canon A1's when i went hd from a pair of Panasonic's. and i miss the rich colors and low light performance i got out of my Panasonic's (not even dvx's but the dvc-30)

i also liked that the gain could be activated buy going all the way open with the iris and then there was a bit of a delay in the ring and then the camera would start adding in the gain. it was very easy to regulate for me at a run and gun wedding.
does the hmc do this or is it strictly a H,M,L switch

even so, 18db gain on the Panasonic's wasn't as bad as 12 db on my canons

buy the way i know exactly what your talking about holding your canon, thumb and index around the base of the viewfinder and palm against the battery door. best way to grip it for wast level shooting.

as far as the pics are concerned i think the top one is the hmc even though it looks sharper in my eye than the bottom one and logic dictated the canon should be sharper.
I personally think the avc-hd (h.264 codec) is just that much better

the hmc 70 i had a chance to play with defiantly made sharper images than my canon in the right light. so... i think the 150 might be capable of besting the canon on that front as well in the proper light.

i will be interested to see which pic is which camera.

so......which is which?
 
Yes! the the top one is the HMC & the bottom one the A1 :)

You can tell that the optics of the HMC aren't as crisp as Canon's especially in blown highlights because you can see the purple fringing around the lights in the ceiling. One of the great things with the XH-A1 is that it keeps nice sharp edges with blown highlights whereas the HMC exhibits that classic purple fringing.

But here's the clincher!! When the footage is actually playing back in motion the HMC actually looks SHARPER than the A1 which seems to suggest that AVCHD had better motion rendering than HDV. I'm not looking to use my video cameras to shoot stills so at the end of the day the HMC wins in this case :)

Oh and hey John, thanks for acknowledging that the SDHC door on the HMC is easier to flip open when you're used to handling the XH-A1 ;) The HMC is dificult to hold in that same way because it actually has a nice big EVF - that one on the Canon is a bit of a joke ;)
 
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im starting to shoot some events with the HMC150

what would u guys say is a nice price to charge for something like wedding?
 
Fidel210 said:
im starting to shoot some events with the HMC150

what would u guys say is a nice price to charge for something like wedding?
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Assuming you are new to filming weddings, I would suggest checking the pricing of your competitors first. Initially you should charge a bit less and be up front about the fact that you are new to the business. That way people's expectations wont be too high.

I would recommend joining a professional assocoation such as the IOV (UK based) where you can get advice. But one tip is to use 2 cameras for the ceremony so you can cut between them. A wedding is a live recording, but the client will want it to look like everything went smooth once you've edited it.

Good luck
 
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