We got them

Sony just released an update for Vegas to handle V1U 24p. Did you have the update installed? I'm trying not to pass judgement on V1U 24p until we have all the software issues sorted.
 
scharky said:
It's not a joke, it's 24P, but there is something funky about it. Here is my experience with the V1U. I had a b- roll camera running at a recent shoot, and the operator brought his new V1U, so I thought we would try it out for B roll. Everything went fine and I captured the footage as I normally would in Vegas 7. Upon looking at the footage I noticed something immediatly wrong with it. Frames were blending, stuttery, crappy, yuk. THen I noticed that all the clips were being read as 29.97 within vegas. What, Sony can't capture it's own footage right but can get the canon footage with no problem. No problem I figured, I went into the properties of the first clip and clicked the enabable 2:3 pulldown. Went back played the clip, still bad. Finially figured out that I had to tell vegas what frame to start the pulldown removal. Well, I said, I guess it isn't that bad I'll just apply this to all the clips. NOpe, each clip started the pulldown on a different frame, what a pain in the ass. So basically you have to tell your NLE exactly where to remove pulldown in order to get the true 24P footage. After that it looks pretty decent, but it's such a pain, especially if you have alot of clips. If sony's own software can't handle the V1U correctly, what are the other NLE's doing?
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wow, what a pile of sh*t. Can anyone else confirm they had this issue? Also, in vegas is there an option like in AE or premiere called "Guess 24P pulldown"? That seemed to always work for me when in AE, but then again its for 24PA.

I would be curious to see if others can confirm this horrible problem?
 
I was running vegas 7.0c, as far as I know that is the most recent version of Vegas, unless there is an update specifically for the V1U.
 
MLCinema : If you don't have DVHSCap in your Developer's folder, then you need to go to Apple's site and download the DevTools that contain it. Search for DVHSCap through Google or on Apple's site, and it will point you to the proper file to download.

scharky : Vegas 7.0c was supposed to be the update that made it possible for Vegas to undestand the 24P from the V1U... So much for that working out properly! :)
 
The V1U has a three prog scan modes: 24p, 24p SCAN A, and 30p. If you use 24p SCAN A, then it resets the cadence every time you pause the camera. When you capture your tape, be sure every time you paused the cam it creates a new clip, and now you've got a bunch of clips with A frames in the same place. This makes it easy to batch pull down everything. I'm sure this is exactly why they added the 24p SCAN A mode. (Note it is NOT in the V1U's manual, it is on the pink CHANGES TO THE PRINTED MANUAL updated sheet that was inside your V1U's box...) This should fix the problems you guys are having. It fixed it for me with Final Cut. 24p footage is squeaky clean and perty.
 
Then what is the point of the 24P mode? Why on earth would you ever want to shoot it if it is just going to give you messy footage later on?
 
The V1's 24P mode is like the DVX's 24p mode (not 24pA). If you're editing on a 60i timeline, why would it be a problem?

The issue is if you want to edit on a 24p timeline. Unless your editing program gets updated to strip out pulldown, you can't do it with V1 footage.
 
i didn't understand yet.. there is or not a BIG nono w/ this new sony's toy? :grin:

(sorry guys but that big grin is just a private joke out there.. some guys give me a good laugh sometimes.. nothing sony related)
 
Footage does pull down properly

Footage does pull down properly

I did pull my footage down leaving me the clean 24p and it looks great. Same basic principle as the DVX100. Yes, you could cut at 60i, but I always thought that was kind of silly. You're adding 20% more hard drive space for yucky interlaced frames, and you're stuck at 29.97 forever. I'd rather cut 24p, finsih 24p, and then pull it up to 29.97 if I need to deliver that way. So yes, this cam has no problem leaving you with 24 frames if you pull out the 2 in the 3:2. I could not do it in an automated way because Final Cut doesn't support the cam yet (I had to use Cinema Tools, etc...), but it worked just fine. If you shoot in 24p (not 24p Scan A Mode), the cadence is not clean over camera pauses. Shoot 24p Scan A Mode, generate new clips with start stop detection (Final Cut does this automatically if you use AIC), and you'll have a folder full of clips with A frames in the same place. You can then batch pull them down. This will certainly be easier when our software supports the cam and removes the frames on capture (hopefully late spring if you're an FCP user). Until then we'll have to do extra work, but I expected that.
 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the HX A1's shutter only does 30 frames a second. It isn't true 24p. It is a very convincing software emulation.
 
well. . . since you said so, your wrong. In 24F the A1's shutter can go from 1/3, 1/6 1/12 1/24/ 1/48 etc. The camera actually switches to a 48hz mode which does indeed give you true 24P motion. I'm sure as long as Canon is calling it F and everyone else calling it P there will always be this question, but it is indeed a different means to the same end.
 
AuditoryVisuals said:
After all this hassle with 24p, I'm pretty much sold for the true 24fps recording of the XH A1.
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There's a lot to be said for the efficient use of the 25 mbs HDV bandwidth when it comes to progressive recording.

I believe the Sony's codec is a little less robust than Canon's in 24F/P mode because it's wasting 20% of the bit rate on redundant frames and I believe it also forces the use of longer GOP. (15 frame GOP)

There are legitimate reasons to go with 24p embedded in 60i, however. It's much easier to intercut this with "live looking, hyper realistic" 60i footage in a 60i timeline because they technically share the same frame rate as far as a NLE is concerned.
 
I used the word shutter incorrectly. What I meant was that the XH A1 always records 30 interlaced frames per second. It cannot record 24 fps progressive scan. It always records interlaced (60i) and uses software to create a progressive look when it lays it to tape. Hence my response to a previous post that it has no "true 24 fps". I just wouldn't use the word "true" there. In the end I'm sure its semantics if the Canon produces an image with filmlike motion.

this is from camcorderinfo.com, but I've seen it elsewhere:
The XH A1 cannot record video in “true 24p” opting instead for 24F - and this may be perceived by many as the biggest shortcoming of Canon’s high-end models. We are unconvinced that this should be a deal-breaker for DPs looking for a camcorder that records full-frame video for two reasons: The video resolution and image controls on the XH A1 are arguably superior to those offered by other camcorders in a similar price range, and 24F differs only in that its full-frame video originates from an interlaced imaging system.
 
magi1500 said:
I used the word shutter incorrectly. What I meant was that the XH A1 always records 30 interlaced frames per second.
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No it doesn't *always*. HDV 24F is a true 24fps recording. It is a progressive 24p sequence created from an interlace CCD system.

30F is a true 30 fps recording with no interlace artifacts.

Most agree the F modes are basically progressive results via other means.
 
I guess it just goes to show you how honest Canon is about there progressives and interlaced! They refuse to call it 24p for the reason that it is taken with interlaced sensors, but is true 24p none the less. Even though other company's may do the same thing, they call it 24p!

I'm guessing that 1440x1080 non square pixel progressive sensors are expensive. And to keep the price down, Canon decided on interlaced sensors.
 
No, I think Canon chose interlace CCD's because 1080i is the more entrenched HD standard and they wanted to make a camera that played well with it. There is also a signifigant sensitivity boost using interlace, and the F modes are simply their way of trying to give as much versatility to the owner as possible.
 
Elton said:
No, I think Canon chose interlace CCD's because 1080i is the more entrenched HD standard and they wanted to make a camera that played well with it. There is also a signifigant sensitivity boost using interlace, and the F modes are simply their way of trying to give as much versatility to the owner as possible.
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I am mostly into progressive stuff but I do like to shoot 60i occasionaly for that Dicovery HD WOW picture of the world look. The H1 freed me up to do that. I had an HVX but with only 2 4GB cards I could only shoot a few minutes of either 1080 interlaced or 60fps 720P for a reality look. either way, for the most part, I was stuck shooting 720P 24fps if I even wanted a moderate amount of time to work before offloading.
 
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