wav mono vs wav poly ? sound devices mixpre3

V

Vino

Active member
Hi,
By mistake I ordered the Sound Devices MixPre 3M instead of the Sound Devices MixPre 3. Whats the difference between the two? Whats the difference between Wav mono and Poly (The MixPre 3 har poly the MixPre 3M has mono). Some clever guy out there with a good advice?

I am a filmmaker/videographer and want to use the device both on camera and also when editing, for VoiceOver. So I wonder if I should just keep it or try to change model...

Best Regards,
 
Pros and cons.. depends on your personal needs. The MixPre M series is more for "musicians, singers songwriters", has a higher track count at a slightly lower cost but does not have TC capabilities the T series has. See Sound Device's comparison page.
 
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WAV mono vs. WAV poly is basically how it records the individual tracks. Mono, all the individual tracks are one file. Poly, each individual track is an individual file.
 
The M is for Musician. This unit w
is designed more for musicians than for filmmakers. But there is nothing that would keep you from using it for filmmaking. The Mono WAV part means that it will record to a group of mono files instead of to a poly file that has a bunch of tracks. For editing it means a little more work since for your stereo recordings you will want to group the tracks in the editor. But the other MixPre3 only records poly files so if you are doing say three lavs you would want to ungroup them in the editor. So.... Kind of depends on how you work and what you are doing mostly. A plus is you can do a stack load of over dubs on the M so that could come in handy, thee is at least one shoot I would have liked that ability in a portable box.

If you are doing shoots with high end cameras and need to send TC to the camera then you may want to exchange, but it's your call. Some might think dealing with mono files would be a big PITA but I grew up on ProTools and it was always grouped mono so it wouldn't bother me at all.
 
"If you are doing shoots with high end cameras and need to send TC to the camera then you may want to exchange, but it's your call."
Yes, BUT... the MixPre series can not generate TC on its own, it can read it though and apply TC stamps to the files.
 
I have the Mixpre-3 with the Musician plug-in, so have the best of both worlds and, thus, experience of using both.

I only use the Musician plug-in mode (i.e. the device as a 3M) when overdubbing (which I do for recording music overdubs on location), and otherwise always use the standard Mixpre-3 mode: the most significant benefits from the Mixpre-3 model (as opposed to the M model) are the much better (clearer and bigger: all horizontal) metering options which really help with field recording levels (odd that nobody has mentioned this one!), the MS linking (may or may not be relevant to you), no confusion in fader knob use arising from track banks inc. their stored fader values (critical for simple field recording), custom/advanced mode options, and, as you have noted, the polywav files. With the Mixpre-3/M there is no max sample rate difference (this applies to the 6 and 10 only). And, as has been mentioned, you can use TC with the Mixpre-3 only.

Given your use I would exchange it: even if you don't use TC or make MS recordings and are happy with mono wav files, it is a question of simpler, clearer and better operability for field recording, which is easily worth the additional cost and hassle of returning it. If you find yourself wanting overdubbing, then download the Musician plug-in ($99) and, as I said, have the best of both worlds.

Cheers,

Roland
 
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Thanks for all Good advice! Seems like I should contact the dealer and see if its possible to change. Not having a possibility to see only 3 tracks seems ultimately not ideal for me. (Strange that its not possible in this model. I havent put it on, wanted to see if I should keep it, so haven’t seem myself

Best
 
It is not just the metering views, as I said, but that is perhaps the most significant practical difference: it is easy to miss what really matters if you haven't actually used both models, although, of course, there are videos that show the M model metering and fader bank switching - e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghxfPFVV0xY

Good luck with an exchange (normally no issue)!

Cheers,

Roland
 
Run&Gun said:
Mono, all the individual tracks are one file. Poly, each individual track is an individual file.
Click to expand...

Shouldn’t that be the other way around?

Poly files are multiple tracks of audio encapsulated in a single file wrapper.

Mono is actually multiple-mono, where each individual track is stored as a separate, independent file.
 
Uh oh! If you have any intention of using this seriously for filmmaking (which I'd assume so, given the forum you're posting to!) then I'd absolutely swap this 3M for instead the original MixPre3.

In fact, I'd got a step further and recommend you instead get the Zoom F4 (or F8/F8n). As the Zoom F series is much better suited for handling the needs of a film production than a MixPre3 is, unless you're just doing very small casual shoots and/or mounting it to your camera rig to shoot solo one man band style.


As for polywav:
That is the usual preferred format, to have ISOs of all the tracks in one single file per take.
 
Alex H. said:
Shouldn’t that be the other way around?

Poly files are multiple tracks of audio encapsulated in a single file wrapper.

Mono is actually multiple-mono, where each individual track is stored as a separate, independent file.
Click to expand...

You are correct. Thanks for catching that. I typed it out backwards. I was in a hurry. Speed kills...

We always record Poly.
 
If you are editing in Premiere, you can drag in a single Poly file and it will split it into individual mono tracks in your timeline. You can sync via waveform with a scratch audio track from the camera to make life easier. If using single track, unique mono files, you just stack them and hit sync. If you edit in Resolve, which is becoming more popular and wish to sync via timecode you really want polywave, as Resolve will only sync one audio file with a given video file ( a major issue they have yet to figure out). If that file is a polywave, all tracks will be synced and assignable to outputs. If you have 3 unique tracks you must sync the first one and then manually stack the rest to match the first track that you synced automatically. I agree the Zoom F4 is a better choice for serious film work, it generates it's own time code that you can jam a camera to, and best of all for this purpose, you can record polywave to one SD card, and separate tracks to SD card #2, that way you have a choice as to which best suits your purpose. Also with the easy mic replacement module you can add 2 more tracks for a total of 6 discrete tracks of isolated mono. I don't use that feature often, but when you need it, it's really great to have.
 
Run&Gun said:
I believe the SD software, WaveAgent, will let you convert Poly-to-Mono and Mono-to-Poly.
Click to expand...

Yes! This is a very handy piece of software. It also allows for editing metadata, batch re-naming, and generating sound reports.

If you’re using the MixPre-3 or -6, one of the handiest features is the ability to change the time code base. While these recorders can utilize TC from an external source, they have no internal generators. This only becomes a problem when the TC funtion is turned on but there’s no external source coming in: they default to 30fps TC stamps, which can screw you up in post if you’re working at any other fram rate. A quick pass through Wave Agent corrects that.

It’s also free: Wave Agent
 
If you have no external source TC coming in, then you aren't going to be using timecode to sync up in your NLE, therefore frame rate becomes irrelevant. The important thing is that your sample rate matches the NLE sample rate, that way there will be no drift. Just drag the file on to your NLE timeline, manually sync, then hit play. No drift should occur. Frame rate only becomes important if you are using TC to sync sound with picture.
 
Paul Isaacs said:
If you have no external source TC coming in, then you aren't going to be using timecode to sync up in your NLE, therefore frame rate becomes irrelevant. The important thing is that your sample rate matches the NLE sample rate, that way there will be no drift. Just drag the file on to your NLE timeline, manually sync, then hit play. No drift should occur. Frame rate only becomes important if you are using TC to sync sound with picture.
Click to expand...

There is a small asterisk with the above, though it shouldn't really come up with audio files. Some apps, like older (and maybe current) versions of ProTools can cause problems if the time bases are different. Actually FCP used to do this also. If QT looked at the file and said it was X FPS then FCP would "convert" it to the project FPS. This has caused a fair number of problems. There is I think a thread here someplace on the issue and there is one over on the Digi user Group. I think this is a rare issue with current versions of software but?

So 99.9% of the time the above is completely reliable, but IF you have sync issues and can't find the cause, take a peak at what the system thinks the FPS of the files are because sometimes it is an issue.

Also many NLE's now have a feature where they will sync audio track based on the videos audio. This works quite well if you send a feed from the mixer to the camera so the audio actually matches. With an on camera mic for guide track it can be a bit more problematic but should at least get you close.
 
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