Waterproof Camera Choices

Mark Williams

Mark Williams

Veteran
I am looking for a waterproof video camera that I can used in streams, rivers, waterfalls to get more creative shots. In the dry stuff will be shot with my HPX170. My budget is $500 max. End product will be for web and DVD and shot in 720p60. I am familiar with the Gopro Hero 3 black but am put off a little by its spartan design and recent corporate stance on professional reviews. What I have found so far after researching the "action cams" and reviewing sample video is the Panasonic DMC TS5. But it is new and there is not much user info. Anyone have any suggestions?
 
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Interesting...wish the original review was still avail to look at. without it it's a tough call to say much either way. Digital review does sell Gopro stuff so there may be valid arguments for binding agreements and the like, but hey, it's between them...I mean, if it affected the end user in any way, there might be a reason to take a stand. I don't see a David and Goliath struggle here, just a PR nightmare for one or both parties.
Certainly nothing that will stop me from using my Hero2.. Gopro introduced the Hero3 before they released all the stuff to make the 2 work as advertised. Now that pi$$ed me off. This new thing , not so much.
 
I do have the Sony action cam and purchased the flat port kit for underwater use and it is quite nice by the way...a lot cheaper too!
 
There are some examples of side by side comparisons like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqQYk-Vuf_I
The Sony is roughly equivelent to the Gopro. Any difference can be brought into line with post tweaking.
24 vs 30 fps...Gopro does 24, the Sony does 30. At $200, the Sony is half the price of the Gopro. (you still need the flat port for $59 for the Sony)
I'm sure you would be happy with either one.
 
Mark,

I have one of the earlier TS cams, probably a 2. It has always surprised me how good it is. The real issue with any of these small cams is holding it steady, it does take serious practice.

Have you considered a housing for your 170? I have a barebones hard tube, which has minimal controls, but it beats a minicam by a wide margin. I'll check on the brand and post the name.

Grant
 
Mark,

The housing is an Epic hero v1. You pretty much have to be in auto mode. And remember on a unit like this, you need ballast to keep it below the surface.

Grant
 
Mark Williams said:
Al, how do you feel about the image quality?
Click to expand...

It's my opinion that many of the youtube comparison videos are spreading misinformation by only giving limited information... There's a couple comparison videos that make it look like the Sony cams are far superior to the Hero3 in low light. That... combined with some of the frustration I've had with the Hero3... convinced me to buy... *sigh*... three of the Sony cams for a couple projects where I figured there will be a lot of low-light shooting with POV.

Initial testing has me really frustrated that I didn't tip-toe into this with only one Sony.

Sure... on youtube you often see that with the Sony, the sky is a really fake aqua-marine color... which turned me off, but the few low-light comparisons that make the Sony appear to have a better image, AND better color... under low-light, convinced me to go all-in with Sony.

In reality... when I bring the footage into my PC and view it... man... it isn't even close. I feel suckered by those youtube vids. For all the aggravation of the GoPro... the image is light-years ahead of the Sony.
 
I've had a TS1 and TS3. Both fun cameras to shoot with. They can go almost anywhere without breaking and despite the small sensor it can be used as a cut away camera for interesting shots. Used the TS1 for this video:


Advantage to the TS1 to TS4 is they have CCD sensors without any rolling shutter issues.

I also made use of the "anamorphic" mode on the TS3 in this short video:

 
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MattinSTL said:
It's my opinion that many of the youtube comparison videos are spreading misinformation by only giving limited information... There's a couple comparison videos that make it look like the Sony cams are far superior to the Hero3 in low light. That... combined with some of the frustration I've had with the Hero3... convinced me to buy... *sigh*... three of the Sony cams for a couple projects where I figured there will be a lot of low-light shooting with POV.

Initial testing has me really frustrated that I didn't tip-toe into this with only one Sony.

Sure... on youtube you often see that with the Sony, the sky is a really fake aqua-marine color... which turned me off, but the few low-light comparisons that make the Sony appear to have a better image, AND better color... under low-light, convinced me to go all-in with Sony.

In reality... when I bring the footage into my PC and view it... man... it isn't even close. I feel suckered by those youtube vids. For all the aggravation of the GoPro... the image is light-years ahead of the Sony.
Click to expand...

You do know about the recent update for 1080 60p for the Sony? http://esupport.sony.com/news/466?m...240:http%3a%2f%2fwww.sony.com%2factionupgrade
Any of these tiny cameras can produce great stuff in some circumstances and really show their cheapness in others. You have to keep it all in perspective. $200 after all.
 
MattinSTL said:
It's my opinion that many of the youtube comparison videos are spreading misinformation by only giving limited information... There's a couple comparison videos that make it look like the Sony cams are far superior to the Hero3 in low light. That... combined with some of the frustration I've had with the Hero3... convinced me to buy... *sigh*... three of the Sony cams for a couple projects where I figured there will be a lot of low-light shooting with POV.

Initial testing has me really frustrated that I didn't tip-toe into this with only one Sony.

Sure... on youtube you often see that with the Sony, the sky is a really fake aqua-marine color... which turned me off, but the few low-light comparisons that make the Sony appear to have a better image, AND better color... under low-light, convinced me to go all-in with Sony.

In reality... when I bring the footage into my PC and view it... man... it isn't even close. I feel suckered by those youtube vids. For all the aggravation of the GoPro... the image is light-years ahead of the Sony.
Click to expand...

I'm curious to know what you shot with the Sony and how it fellflat for you. Haveing recommended the camera I feel badly you had that experience. Maybe post a clip?
 
Al... I didn't buy the Sony based on your suggestion. I actually bought the first AS15 last fall. I've always been one of those guys that seems to buy things at exactly the wrong time. I bought two of the original GoPro and about six weeks later the Hero2 came out... then I bought a couple of those... and when the talk of wifi started, added a third... then after months of frustration waiting on wifi for the Hero2 (I posted several places that instead of the wifi ability coming around they'd release the Hero3... and they eventually did)... anyway... the ability to FRAME a shot was a high incentive for me... so when the Sony was announced... I actually pre-ordered one.

Well... I used the Hero2 in a few places where you'd need that sort of thing... and also used the stills function. I thought it was decent enough, but not really blown away whenever the shot was high-key... (lots of DR required)... When the Sony came out... and I'd ordered one... I planned to put the cam through it's paces before ordering more. The goal was to eventually have 3 cams... to do something like Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee (that style of shooting)... also the style of the Sonic commercials (or I guess any 3 cam shoot).

This part was my own fault, but I didn't really use the Sony much... I just knew that the Hero2 wasn't rocking my world... it was just fine... and instead of doing some kind of head-to-head with the Hero2 and Sony... I quickly sold the last 2 of the Hero2s that I had. I had a Hero3 coming from the NAB deal... but I watched a bunch of videos on youtube... and in my own tests using only my iphone... I thought the Sony looked good... good DR, etc. Also of note, the Sony has zero lag on the wifi... and fills the whole device screen. The Hero3 has 4-5 seconds of lag, and has a smaller window. I'd chalk it up to set it and forget it... not really usable as a content monitor (compared to the sony)...

So... naturally... jump the gun and bought two more of the Sony. THEN I decide to shoot a variety of stuff... and check it out on the PC. Well... that's when my disappointment in the Sony started. I've read reviews where people were upset in seeing grain in full daylight... and yeah, put the shot up on the PC and there it is... dancing pixels in the middle of the day... not a few... nope... lots of 'em. This is on top of the very "video cam" look of the Sony... vs. the "film look" (wow, when's the last time you said those words?) of the GoPro... and finally, this is to say nothing of the colors... which are dramatically more realistic on the GoPro.

So... for me anyway... it's not about the $200 for the cam... $268 for the AS15 (which I'd STRONGLY say, if you're going that route, the ability to frame your shot is worth the difference)... what it's really about is the $100 difference for an aesthetically pleasing shot.

If you want to document something... then yeah, I think the Sony is decent... and the stabilization feature is probably the single biggest point... it's pretty good... but as an old-school guy who was first love-struck at the ability to shoot something and have it look like a FILM... instead of a "video"... the look and color spectrum of a shot is pretty important to me... and I just couldn't (can't) get over how "video like" the Sony looks compared to the latest GoPro.

To be clear... I'm not happy with the quirks of the latest GoPro... frankly, it's a joke... but the image is so much better that it's not even close. On my PC the Sony shots look like almost blurry video... and the GoPro shots look like crisp "3D" in comparison. Yes, the Sony colors pop... (mostly just blue-skies, and artificially so...) but it's akin to shooting RAW... i.e. the GoPro stuff just looks more real straight off... and if I have to choose between tweaking GoPro color correction from "realistic" to something interpretive, I'd much rather do that then try to turn unrealistic colors into something else.

Again... what I'm wanting to shoot... is 2 people in a car... like Comedians/Coffee... or the Sonic commercials... that style... conversations in a car.

I'm not saying the Sony is crap... but if it's a hundred bucks difference to the Hero3 (and you haven't spent the $$$ yet)... then I'd like to save others from buying into a bunch of the comparison videos on youtube. I'm hoping to graduate from "test" videos into something with funny and/or compelling content... but as I already own the cameras involved... I'll definitely shoot my own test video, with commentary, about these cams... and I'll be neutral... like I said... I WANTED the Sony to "win" this... the wifi app works perfectly, the cam has a stabilizer, I like the 120 degree FOV... I wanted to like the Sony the best, but when I look at the shots on a full screen the differences become glaringly obvious.
 
Artifacts are funny things. Either you notice them and they drive you crazy or they just don't matter. A bit of grain is background stuff for me, it's there, I see it but it's not on my list of irritants I can't live with.
I remember talking to one of the techs at work years ago about my "new" trinitron Sony tv and comparing its aperture mask with the shadow mask used in other crt displays. He said, I'll tell you something I can't untell.
I said, go ahead. He then showed me the thin wires at one third and two thirds across the screen on a trinitron tube that held the aperture grill in place. I had never seen them before, and for ever after, they were the only things I could see.
I grew to live with them after time had passed, but my beloved trinitron was never the same. Is there a lesson in this story? Probably not. For me, noticing the artifacts means the content isn't strong enough. Forest for the trees and all that. :)
 
i finally ordered a racist gopro, it was just on sale for 350. have been looking forward to it for awhile but the issues have kept me away. anyone on the latest firmware having an issue free experience?

PS... anyone want to buy two hero 2's?
 
The problem is that the m aker of the board cam that gopro uses justannounced a new better morecapable model...so the hero 4 is just around the corner.
 
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