WARNING!!!: Multicam in Premiere CS6 - a VERY FRUSTRATING experience!!!

T

The Irish TRex

Well-known member
WARNING!!!: Multicam editing is a very frustrating experience on Premiere Pro CS6. If you are thinking of switching to Premiere Pro CS6 from Final Cut Pro 7, or FCPX, or Avid or something else and you do multicam edits frequently, please be aware that there is a MAJOR issue within Premiere Pro CS6 (as of 6.0.3) that will cause you to have to waste time going back and fixing the issue or try workarounds that do NOT work for many users including those on many Mac computers. This issue has been around for years and Adobe does not want to fix it which makes editing multicam sequences a very frustrating experience.


The issue:


When editing a multicam sequence, hitting the spacebar or hitting the PAUSE button or STOP button causes Premiere to make a CUT in your timeline and then change shots back to the original angle whether you like it or not!


This is the thread that was falsely marked as SOLVED when the proposed workaround does NOT work for most Mac/Apple users. They then locked it so that no one else could voice their frustration about the issue:


http://forums.adobe.com/thread/738084?start=0&tstart=0


Imagine if every time you hit pause or stop within Premiere it made a cut in your timeline and changed shots for you. That would be annoying, no?


Hitting the Pause button or Stop button on a timeline should not make cuts and change shots for you. It should simply pause or stop the playback. The problem has been acknowledged by Adobe but there is not fix in sight as of October 2012. There have been threads on Adobe forums that have addressed this issue dating back to 2010 but no real solutions have been provided only proposed workarounds that don't work for many users due to a possible BUG. Recently Adobe even locked out the forum thread so others can't chime in and voice their frustration. They called it "solved" even though their proposed workaround does NOT work for most Mac users. Not sure that bodes well for how they handle their users. I know Philip recent wrote about how he switched to Premiere Pro CS6 from FCP7 as many users have including myself, but it's hard to use multicam within Premiere until this issue is fixed and the PAUSE/STOP button does NOT make un-intended CUTS in your timeline!


It's a very frustrating experience to say the least. FCPX has a FANTASTIC multicam workflow with udio sync and more and best of all when you hit pause, the timeline pauses and doesn't do more edits for you. But there are many things to like about Premiere and its an easier switch coming from FCP7. It's just too bad that the multicam workflow isn't up to the level of other editing programs out there right now.


My guess: Moderators from Adobe will chime in here with links to how their multicam works (despite this MAJOR debilitating issue) and add the same suggested BROKEN workarounds that DO NOT work for most Mac/Apple users in hopes to squash anymore light being shined on this time wasting, frustrating issue. Fixes don't come overnight. We all know that. But its been 2 years and Adobe has been giving users the runaround now for years asking users to treat this as a "feature request" instead of a "bug" since it's more of a "design flaw" than anything else. Hmmm. Locking a thread so that others can't chime in with their frustration is how they've handled the issue. I think it's time the issue was FIXED.

 
Hello, Irish TRex. I just completed 5 mutlicam (4 angles) sequences in Premiere CS6 Mac over the weekend and had zero issues, including moments where I hit "Stop" because I needed to fix something (one of the cameras was shooting a different frame size so I had to fix that). It worked very well for me, so this is the first I've heard of this issue.
 
Interesting. This issue even happens on Lynda.com and their tutorial on Multicam! But the guy doing the tutorial doesn't mention the fact that hitting stop or pause within the multicam window just made an additional cut at the stopping point and then reverted back to the original angle. I thought it was me until I saw that video. Then I've found other threads with many users talking about this subject and how it affects them too. The Adobe staff even acknowledged the issue classifying it as more of a design flaw than a bug so users were forced to make a "feature request" if they wanted it changed. I'd love to see how you did it so where you are editing in the multicam window and you hit stop or pause or the spacebar and it didn't make a cut there and go back to the first angle. Were you already on that first angle when you hit stop perhaps? Can you try to duplicate the issue somehow? If you can't then maybe its a bug afterall which would be awesome because I'm assuming Adobe cares more about bugs than they do about adding all the feature requests users have out there.

Calling a request to make the pause/stop button only pause/stop and not make additional cuts a "feature request" is a shame. Let me know if you somehow have the golden copy of CS6 where this issue does not arise because in two years of posts by users and moderators, no one else has been able to edit multicam and stop or pause while on another camera angle (besides the original angle) without this happening.
 
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I've done lots of multicam edits on CS6 on a Mac. Yes it does make a cut when you hit stop but only if you have the record button toggled on in the multicam window. If you don't want it to cut every time you start and stop, make sure it's toggled off. From what I gather, when it is on you're recording live switching. When off, you are often skimmig around to find the right place to cut. So I think it's a design "flaw" in that I also prefer FCPX way of doing things, but I wouldn't call it a bug.
 
I don't do a lot of extensive multicam editing, but on this project last weekend, I had 4 camera angles, mostly alternating between Cameras 3 and 4/1 (they had roughly the same shot, though 1 was more wide). I would start cutting and then hit stop whenever I would cut to Camera 3 if I noticed it hadn't been reframed to match the shots from the other cameras (3 were shooting SD and 1 was shooting HD, so I was mastering on an SD timeline). I would close the multi-cam window, pull up the sequence with all the shots, fix the camera 3 footage, then return to my multi-cam sequence and move my playhead back to where I stopped, bring up the multicam window again, and started back from the shot on Camera 3 and continued forward. Then I would get to the end and go through the sequence again without the multicam interface, to make more minute adjustments where I wasn't fast enough in real-time cutting to cut at the best moment. The only cuts I had to fix where cuts I made accidently switching to a camera I didn't intend to go to.

I have experienced that bug before because I remember thinking they had fixed it in CS6 because it no longer cut whenever I hit stop. However, I had no issues with multicam cutting at all on my system (OSX Lion 10.7.5, Premiere CS6.0.2) and I was very pleased with how well it worked out for me (especially the ease of use in syncing all the camera angles using PluralEyes).
 
Interesting. Sounds like a very interesting project but I'd be shocked if this issue isn't present for you in CS6 given the number of people including the Adobe staff who have acknowledged the issue. I would love to see if you went back now to that edit and tried cutting from one angle to the next and then hitting stop and seeing if it made an extra cut and changed angles on you. If it didn't then maybe you were on the original angle so it didn't need to cut, so try cutting to a different shot while editing and then hit the spacebar, or stop or pause and see what happens.

One thing I learned from watching the Lynda.com tutorial on multicam editing in CS6 is that sometimes people get so used to bugs that they don't even notice as was the case in that video. The host didn't even mention the fact that his clip had changed to a different shot when he stopped it. Thanks Gary for your feedback. Now that you are reminded of this bug, I'd love to see if you can go back to your multicam edit and try to duplicate the issue.
 
chslung...thanks for your response. But toggling the record button on/off does not resolve the issue. In fact, its part of the issue. On my mac, starting a live edit (which is the whole point of the multicam workflow) the record button is automatically toggled on when you make your first cut. Then, if you toggle the record button off or hit the "0" shortcut, doing that makes the cut back to the original angle. So yeah, if you've already hit "0" to toggle record off then you hit stop or pause...the edit isn't made where you stop or edit because the damage has already been done at the point where the record button was toggled off. Does that make sense?

Bottom line: when doing a live edit (the main feature of CS6 multicam) if you stop the recording of that edit, wherever you tell it to "stop recording" an edit is placed there whether you like it or not. If you were already on that original camera shot when you hit that record button, then it'll make a cut but keep that same angle. But if you were on a different camera angle when you hit stop recording then it will make a cut and switch back to your original angle. I've read where editing on Windows may not have this problem...only mac users...but before that bug could be flushed out Adobe shut down the thread and locked it up calling it "solved" when it clearly wasn't.

This is a HUGE flaw with Premiere CS6 and makes editing multicam sequences very frustrating.
 
The Irish TRex said:
One thing I learned from watching the Lynda.com tutorial on multicam editing in CS6 is that sometimes people get so used to bugs that they don't even notice as was the case in that video. The host didn't even mention the fact that his clip had changed to a different shot when he stopped it. Thanks Gary for your feedback. Now that you are reminded of this bug, I'd love to see if you can go back to your multicam edit and try to duplicate the issue.
Click to expand...

When I was doing the editing, I only would stop the multi-cam edit once, usually at the beginning, so that's why it has passed by unnoticed. Now that I'm actually paying attention to what its doing, the behavior you mention is happening, and I can see how it would get annoying. I don't think this is either a "bug" or a "feature"...I think it was just programmed that way without anyone really stopping to think about how multi-cam editors might be annoyed by that.

I don't necessarily think it's a show stopper, personally, but if you do a majority of editing in a multi-camera environment, then perhaps AVID or FCPX is a better option.
 
The Irish TRex said:
the guy doing the tutorial doesn't mention the fact that hitting stop or pause within the multicam window just made an additional cut at the stopping point and then reverted back to the original angle.
Click to expand...

That's because for sane people, it's just not that big a deal. There are many things that could use improvement in PP. This one's pretty far down the list.
 
Jim Simon said:
That's because for sane people, it's just not that big a deal. There are many things that could use improvement in PP. This one's pretty far down the list.
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Okay. Well, thanks Jim Simon for your constructive analysis. Maybe it isn't a big deal to you but it is for many people. I'm sure you have gripes that I would consider unimportant because I don't do what you do. Hell you may be unemployed and just bitter Jim, but I don't know you. The fact is that your post offered no solution. Perhaps because its not something that concerns you. For many, many users this is a big concern that's actually far UP on their list. I'd advise you do us all a favor and stay out of issues that don't concern you. The fact is that Adobe Premiere Pro CS6 has a MAJOR FLAW within the multicam live editing workflow and there is not a solution at this point.
 
Gary Huff said:
When I was doing the editing, I only would stop the multi-cam edit once, usually at the beginning, so that's why it has passed by unnoticed. Now that I'm actually paying attention to what its doing, the behavior you mention is happening, and I can see how it would get annoying. I don't think this is either a "bug" or a "feature"...I think it was just programmed that way without anyone really stopping to think about how multi-cam editors might be annoyed by that.

I don't necessarily think it's a show stopper, personally, but if you do a majority of editing in a multi-camera environment, then perhaps AVID or FCPX is a better option.
Click to expand...

Thank you Gary for your feedback and for going back and verifying the issue. Yes, this issue is on-going and because I edit 6 days a week with multiple multicams I'm beginning to realize that FCPX and Avid may simply be the better option for those looking to do multicam work on a regular basis. Bummer. Thank you again for your response. I appreciate your time and help. I actually had someone else test this issue on a PC and the proposed "workaround" that Adobe suggested does NOT work. They marked it as the "correct" answer in that thread and yet it does NOT work. Toggling off the Record button IS the issue as I stated above in my response to "chslung".
 
The Irish TRex said:
Thank you Gary for your feedback and for going back and verifying the issue. Yes, this issue is on-going and because I edit 6 days a week with multiple multicams I'm beginning to realize that FCPX and Avid may simply be the better option for those looking to do multicam work on a regular basis. Bummer. Thank you again for your response. I appreciate your time and help. I actually had someone else test this issue on a PC and the proposed "workaround" that Adobe suggested does NOT work. They marked it as the "correct" answer in that thread and yet it does NOT work. Toggling off the Record button IS the issue as I stated above in my response to "chslung".
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You're using the wrong editing NLE. Your right, multi-cam isn't perfect on CS6. That's why I went to GrassValley Edius, and just did 5 HD cameras in realtime, WITH color correction, in FULL rez. I've used Edius in Bootcamp. Perfect. Oh, and a cheap $100 graphic card.
 
Well, I take back what I said. Just had a multicam edit come up and decided to pay more attention to the record button, and I see what you mean now. It makes a cut when you turn off the record button. I'd probably term it as a bug since I can't see the logic in making a cut on turning off record. This problem doesn't show up if you just turn on and off the record button without making a cut. I can workaround this problem just by moving the unintended cut to where I want it to be.
 
Bugs aside I think my first foray into CS6 multicam editing is akin to hitting oneself on the head with a hammer. I was determined to punish Apple for bailing on us pro users but I may have to suck it up and try FCP X. Multicam in FCP 7 was amazing. A real breeze. CS6, not so much.
 
You know I've never even noticed! In my multicam editing, my workflow has never made this visible that I've noticed. My own workflow just puts me into a run and I switch camera angles. Very few cuts are exactly in the right place, but most are close, while a few cuts were just wrong. I do theatre stuff - so I'll do the entire 50-55mins in one session if I can. If I do have to press stop, so I can start again, I'll just back up a bit and continue - so I've never noticed the end shot may not have been on the right camera. I then fine tune each cut if required in the next session, adjusting as I go. The behaviour you describe has no impact at all on my workflow, indeed, I'd never even spotted it until I read this topic.

I think that the thing that makes me a little confused about is your banner headline
This is a HUGE flaw with Premiere CS6 and makes editing multicam sequences very frustrating.

my statement would be very different.

This is a TINY flaw with Premiere and in my own view, inconsequential

I do appreciate that for you it's a killer, but for me - nothing to lose sleep over. I quite like how multicam works for me - sorry.
 
The Irish TRex said:
WARNING!!!: Multicam editing is a very frustrating experience on Premiere Pro CS6. If you are thinking of switching to Premiere Pro CS6 from Final Cut Pro 7, or FCPX, or Avid or something else and you do multicam edits frequently, please be aware that there is a MAJOR issue within Premiere Pro CS6 (as of 6.0.3) that will cause you to have to waste time going back and fixing the issue or try workarounds that do NOT work for many users including those on many Mac computers. This issue has been around for years and Adobe does not want to fix it which makes editing multicam sequences a very frustrating experience.


The issue:


When editing a multicam sequence, hitting the spacebar or hitting the PAUSE button or STOP button causes Premiere to make a CUT in your timeline and then change shots back to the original angle whether you like it or not!
Click to expand...

Hi all,
This issue was fixed in Premiere Pro CC (7.0.1).

Thanks!
Kevin
 
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