FS7: Warning! FS7 Reds

S

samtheman

Well-known member
I have extensively tested the FS7 under all the gamma settings and color profiles with a speed booster and the Canon 24-105. I tested both in low light and standard average room lighting. There is red chroma noise in all modes and settings. This also included a custom profile where i decreased the red gain. This is the same problem that is evident in Doug Jensen's video. The only difference might be the lense he used, he also mentioned that he didn't adjust anything under the custom menu. I can tell you that i exhausted every mode. This is diffidently a Show Stopper for me. Yesterday i fell in love with it during a low light test, but there was no red's in that image.

Doug's Videos that show this:






Stills from my shoot:
red 2.jpgred 3.jpgred 4.jpgred 5.jpgred1.jpgreda.jpgredb.jpgredc.jpgredd.jpgrede.jpg
 
eddavid said:
Interesting. Hmm lets see if raw output fixes this.
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As you know, not all of us need Raw. The 1/2 inch PMW200 doesn't even exhibit this problem as much. The only workaround was to offset the hue and correct it later. Not the best option.
 
Maybe "Notification" would have been more appropriate than "Warning!"? Use of "Warning!" is the type of thing that can cause panic and internet wildfire.

Is the issue something that Sony needs to address in a software update? Yes, it is. Is the issue something that the average person and not a pixel-peeping techie is going to notice or find significantly problematic in the footage? Probably not.

Let's not feed those eager to declare the Fs7 a piece of crap camera that is only purchased by those who were not wise enough to save up for an F5. The F5 had it's issues early on as well-

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]"[/FONT]Some F5 footage sampleshavehit the web and a few of us havenoticed some horrible chroma artifacting around "hot sources"."- Mar 02, 2013
 
Everyone can interpret that which ever way they can. I have used and love the F5 btw, but a lot of people figure that this is an F5 straight out of the box when it is not. Yes this needs to be addressed and I'm sure the engineers build things purposely for a reason. So this is a warning before you buy. Additionally, you're locked out of the matrix settings in SLOG3, but why? Postponing updates has business implications too. Let's not assume that everything in the menu was setup by accident. The only usable modes right now are the standard gammas.

I'm sure on a 4k TV, one doesn't need to pixel peep.
 
Id try some sort of formal test before making pronouncements.

Dougs stuff is all underexposed as I guess is yours.

What is a simple formal test? Set up a scene lit for 5.6 (in your head), shoot clips from it from maybe F11-2.8 without changing the lights, see where the files go in post - I bet after a bit of wheel down in post the 2.8 files are crisp and free of noise.

S
 
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This is at 5.6 with plenty of light, I shot over 4 hours of tests. The FS7 is an AMAZING camera, i hear there's the SLOG2 update coming up. Hopefully they will unlock the Matrix settings under SGamut/Slog3, because it is also noisy. Here's the video version of the photos in 4k.
 
Im not saying you are wrong Im just saying you have done nothing that proves you are right.

To prove something you are going to need to prform bracket testing.

Looking at the video Im somewhat doubting you have 'plenty' of light. We can see the TV reflections playing on the 'talent' - basic emphery would suggest such a scene is 2.8/2

Go back, shoot it at 2.8 , darken the files in post and get a clean file. Or set up a test Gregtag card shoot it under various conditions and report your findings.

Im thinking the camera is easy to under expose.

S
 
samtheman said:
I have extensively tested the FS7 under all the gamma settings and color profiles with a speed booster and the Canon 24-105. I tested both in low light and standard average room lighting. There is red chroma noise in all modes and settings. This also included a custom profile where i decreased the red gain. This is the same problem that is evident in Doug Jensen's video. The only difference might be the lense he used, he also mentioned that he didn't adjust anything under the custom menu. I can tell you that i exhausted every mode. This is diffidently a Show Stopper for me. Yesterday i fell in love with it during a low light test, but there was no red's in that image. Doug's Videos that show this:
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My video does not show that. Sorry, but you are making incorrect satements about my video.

1) There is no problem with red chroma noise in the parade video. The problem with the reds is that they are oversatured and have a magenta shift. But there's no noise problem. If you are having an issue with noise, you've got a different problem.

2) The parade video WAS shot with a custom scene file. Unfortunately it was the combination of settings I had programmed that did not work well together on a real-world shoot instead of charts. It was my own fault and I have since corrected the problem with a new scene file that looks great. Also, I've been able to do a regrade of the parade footage in Resolve and it looks almost perfect and completely salvagable. I'll see if I can post a new version in a week or two.

The video of the boys on the couch has a lot more problems that just with the reds. You better reset the camera and start over again from scratch.
If someone can't get good results with the FS7, they are doing something wrong. It is as simple as that. The camera is solid when the right menu settings, exposure, and WB are used.
 
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Doug Jensen said:
Well, that thread proves my point that you don't know what you're doing. You can expose however you want I won't say a word about it, but please don't tell me that I am doing it wrong because I am not.
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Well join that thread and enlighten me. Im seeing that a thicker exposure greatly helps noise - something I feel is also relevant the the OP on this thread.

Incidentally the result of my test is hardly unexpected - a cleaner file at 800 than at 4000.

S
 
How the hell can you judge critical colour with two young dudes sitting on a sofa lit by a TV screen? Has no one heard of a chroma du monde or a Gretag MacBeth Colour Checker chart?
 
Exactly! Not the hood of a car, either. I use a DSC chroma du monde, DCS Cambelles, kodak gray card, Sekonic 758C light meter, Sony OLED monitor, Cine-Xenar PL lenses, and a Leader LV5330 WFM monitor to ensure accuracy and controlled consistency in my testing and evaluations.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Exactly! Not the hood of a car, either. I use a DSC chroma du monde, DCS Cambelles, kodak gray card, Sekonic 758C light meter, Sony OLED monitor, Cine-Xenar PL lenses, and a Leader LV5330 WFM monitor to ensure accuracy and controlled consistency in my testing and evaluations.
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+1 using a calibrated chart is really the only critical way to do this.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Exactly! Not the hood of a car, either. I use a DSC chroma du monde, DCS Cambelles, kodak gray card, Sekonic 758C light meter, Sony OLED monitor, Cine-Xenar PL lenses, and a Leader LV5330 WFM monitor to ensure accuracy and controlled consistency in my testing and evaluations.
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I purchased the camera already by the way, so i know it's potential. When the F5 came out, it also had issues that needed to be addressed.
I shot 4 hours of footage with the FS-7 at various T-Stops from 11 to 2.2. The original XAVC 4k files is where the issue is evident the most.

I mentioned that it's an amazing camera. I will be resetting it just to say it was done, but i know this issue is apparent in the HG and Slog modes as it is not found in the standard gamma modes.
 
Sam, I couldn't care less if you've shoot 4 minutes or 4 hours or whether you think the camera is any good or not. Unless you should a proper chart, that is properly lit and properly exposed and view the results on a properly calibrated monitor after the correct post-production has been carried out you are sampling wasting your time and ours.
 
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