walk and talk scenes how to accomplish

With all the dogs being trained to drive cars in kiwi land YouTube videos, I think a solution is right around the corner. I should get my welder buds to boogle something together Kevin. Also saw this week most groceries are no longer going to accept coconuts gathered by trained monkeys. All these trained monkeys out of work, dog driving rig, monkey operating, hmmm. I do have ”friends “ not me that will disappointed monkeys will no longer be touching their nuts.
 
Thanks Charles. Deakins requested to see one of my films - his wife says the blu ray is on his desk - it's been 5 years now. If i ever hear from him I'm gonna tell him to bring the rickshaw or just forget it pal!
 
kevin baggott said:
Hey,
Thanks for taking a look. I'm an indy filmmaker - making no budget features.

If you look at the below trailer at 1:11 into it - that was shot with the osmo pocket and the actor holding a selfie stick. I thought it worked pretty good - liked how it forced the actors together.
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Hi Kevin...

The walk and talk is hard to master if you're trying to do it by yourself. My first instinct is that the actors are pushing your frame a bit hard in that one, maybe because you're not walking (backwards) fast enough :-)

There's a few ways to do it depending on your feel. Steadicam is a great option. Most operators will prefer to walk backwards with a grip that they TRUST to spot them. It depends on the terrain a little and the length of the shot. Get a Steadicam op in for that shot....?

There's hand held, which I wouldn't recommend unless for energy. it will be fairly unstable. But you can get quite good with the *right* camera build....I've done this style before and it can feel pretty good, as long as the actors aren't walking too fast. IS can also help here in lens or on sensor.

You can use a rickshaw or trolly of some kind. I've done great handheld shots sitting on dollies walking backwards. Feels like a handheld but smoother than if I walked it...

An easy rig with the SERENE can also do some good work here....

Lately I've been using a R2 operated off camera mounted to a dolly. You can get pretty reasonable shots that way too. I've also seen some people rig to bicycles (human powered) as well if you need more speed, or to electric bikes. You can operate an Ronin S off-board without too many troubles. That might be safer ? Requires remote video and focusing and some remote control of the head.....

Wheelchairs or rickshaws are easy to do as well, but tend take some skill in the grip pulling it for you.

JB
 
Hey John,
Thanks for all those tips. I'm gonna look into them all. Much thanks.
The walk and talk at 1:11 was one of the actors holding the actual osmo pocket on a selfie stick - which is why it's very tight. It's not natural looking at all but kind of worked as the film was a gangster/comedy.
I had a traditional steadicam guy shoot the clip at the end of the trailer starting at 4:51. Those were shot with the black magic cinema camera. One needs a little dramamine to watch that scene - but the operator was new with the equipment, etc. I was lucky to get him.
Well you've all given me much to think over. I thank you all. Peace - kevin
 
CharlesPapert said:
Rickshaws are indeed available, but they are one of those things that exists in the higher-end industry that takes a while to be "discovered" by the indie world (a classic example is the slider, we had those for decades before they became a small-camera craze, with all of the companies subsequently copying each other's bad initial designs instead of working off the tried-and-true ones).
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Is there an industry standard rickshaw or are they usually custom made by Grips?
 
rob norton said:
Is there an industry standard rickshaw or are they usually custom made by Grips?
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There isn't a single industry standard. A number of operators I know own their own, others rent them out. It's a bit of a tall build to throw at the grips without some advance warning but generally we'll reach out to rent one if locally available. A google search for "Steadicam rickshaw" will show a pretty wide range of builds. The ones I think make the most sense are largely made of speedrail so you can modify them on-set with long or short handles, seat or standing platform, Steadicam mount or no mount for handheld or non-body mounted gimbal etc.
 
CharlesPapert said:
There isn't a single industry standard. A number of operators I know own their own, others rent them out. It's a bit of a tall build to throw at the grips without some advance warning but generally we'll reach out to rent one if locally available. A google search for "Steadicam rickshaw" will show a pretty wide range of builds. The ones I think make the most sense are largely made of speedrail so you can modify them on-set with long or short handles, seat or standing platform, Steadicam mount or no mount for handheld or non-body mounted gimbal etc.
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Thanks for the criteria!

I also see a lot of grips just get one of these, and it works well. It’s the closest I’ve seen to a de facto.

https://www.inovativ.com/jackal-port...mera-rickshaw/
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That's good to know the jackal is out in the wild and semi popular.

What about Trevor Faber's (GripTech) creation - https://griptech.net.au/product/rickshaw/?

I'm only asking because he's in Sydney and maybe you've worked together.

Seems like way more bang for the buck if portability isn't as important.
 
John Brawley said:
They’re often home built.

I had a grip in Melbounre that made me one by going to a customs wheelchair maker that normally makes special pieces for Olympians. (Dean Garrow).

I also see a lot of grips just get one of these, and it works well. It’s the closest I’ve seen to a de facto.

https://www.inovativ.com/jackal-portable-camera-rickshaw/
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What about just a wheelchair? Or a pedicab or something like this: https://buffalogapoutfitters.com/pr...zxMMqPbNGRHR1Ihvl-aj_SGrrpG9hMu8aAggZEALw_wcB

Also, isn't there a requirement for relatively smooth ground for this to work? Or else the bumps in the path can rock your rig?
 
ahalpert said:
What about just a wheelchair? Or a pedicab or something like this: https://buffalogapoutfitters.com/pr...zxMMqPbNGRHR1Ihvl-aj_SGrrpG9hMu8aAggZEALw_wcB

Also, isn't there a requirement for relatively smooth ground for this to work? Or else the bumps in the path can rock your rig?
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If you're a professional Grip, the more accommodating you can be to the DP's demands the better. But if the requirements aren't as strenuous you can get by with anything.

Balloon and larger bicycle style wheels can take the edge off but still only do so much if the ground is too uneven. So yes there's a requirement - set by the individual!
 
ahalpert said:
What about just a wheelchair? Or a pedicab or something like this: https://buffalogapoutfitters.com/pr...zxMMqPbNGRHR1Ihvl-aj_SGrrpG9hMu8aAggZEALw_wcB

Also, isn't there a requirement for relatively smooth ground for this to work? Or else the bumps in the path can rock your rig?
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The idea with the rickshaw is that the driver can face in the direction they are moving the rig, and push it via the bar rather than pull it as one would do with a wheelchair. Wheelchairs are also less than ideal height for preceding adults, as the lens height for a normal carry (handheld or basic gimbal) may be too low (good for kids though). And the smaller front wheels are indeed not great for challenging terrain.

All of these still require some version of stabilization if you are looking for a smooth shot, so using these with a Steadicam or gimbal is preferable to a hardmount or handheld (unless handheld is the desired look, without the footsteps).
 
CharlesPapert said:
The idea with the rickshaw is that the driver can face in the direction they are moving the rig, and push it via the bar rather than pull it as one would do with a wheelchair. Wheelchairs are also less than ideal height for preceding adults, as the lens height for a normal carry (handheld or basic gimbal) may be too low (good for kids though). And the smaller front wheels are indeed not great for challenging terrain.
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Copy that. I'm just trying to think of a budget solution because it's a large gap between having your cast self-shooting with an Osmo and buying a $7k rickshaw.

One thing about the wheelchair - you hold a pistol grip gimbal from below so it might be easier to hoist it to the proper height? And maybe your dolly grip can rig extensions to the wheelchair handles to give themselves bars to pull.

BTW I just realized that that dope shot of you running with the steadicam is from operating on American History X. That's awesome, man. The swastika should have given it away but everything's tiny on my phone.
 
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yes - when i saw the price of the rickshaw at 7 grand i gulped at the number of bodegas i was gonna have to rob. I tell ya it was sweet giving the actor that little osmo pocket on a selfie stick and me walking ahead doing sound with wireless mics. 1 man crew.
I was looking at wheelchairs just now - 'One thing about the wheelchair - you hold a pistol grip gimbal from below so it might be easier to hoist it to the proper height? And maybe your dolly grip can rig extensions to the wheelchair handles to give themselves bars to pull.' Good idea.
But yeah the terrain is an issue - especially shooting on sidewalks in bklyn. But a lot of great suggestions.
 
ahalpert said:
Copy that. I'm just trying to think of a budget solution because it's a large gap between having your cast self-shooting with an Osmo and buying a $7k rickshaw.

One thing about the wheelchair - you hold a pistol grip gimbal from below so it might be easier to hoist it to the proper height? And maybe your dolly grip can rig extensions to the wheelchair handles to give themselves bars to pull.
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All that is possible, sure. And I'm not suggesting anyone on this board run out and spend $7K on a rickshaw...but, it may be possible to build one or find someone to help build one for a fraction of that. And it would be better to reverse engineer from the better designs you can find online than start with a wheelchair (the single pneumatic bogey wheel is much better for steering and terrain than the dual solid casters on a wheelchair, for instance).

BUT STILL...at the core of this discussion we were talking about basic walk-and-talks and I again I want to encourage people to practice and get good at doing it on their feet, whether gimbal or Steadicam! Because you never know if a given shot will want to evolve into something that can't be done on a wheeled conveyance. Believe me, I know the value of riding vs walking--but if it started to hinder the shot design, I'd grab the vest pronto.
 
In the south of the UK where I rent mine the values it give to allow a crew to do consistent 50mm backwards shots all day without being stressful for anyone it is super value.

I offer handheld or a post which can take a steadicam arm which will fly a small steadicam, movi pro (via my homebuild) or a steadimate.

I really feel its added huge value to a few productions for price of a (big) round of coffee for the crew.

There should be no problem handing on the cost to a client. Even with a small mark up

For a bit more cash Ill plug the crews operator into my full rig.. movi, FS7, wireless monitors/focus/pan/tilt. I dont rent my electronics dry.

Im not really trying to sell my service, just that of renting the right thing for the right shoot :)
 
rob norton said:
Thanks for the criteria!



That's good to know the jackal is out in the wild and semi popular.

What about Trevor Faber's (GripTech) creation - https://griptech.net.au/product/rickshaw/?

I'm only asking because he's in Sydney and maybe you've worked together.

Seems like way more bang for the buck if portability isn't as important.
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I feel like I’ve used a version of that.

GripTech stuff is ok. I’ve used their sliders before too.

I think it’s fine. The question was asked and I think these solutions aren’t what was being asked for here, but those are the more “de facto” do it right in the first place answers.

JB
 
I think my best bet is looking into the ronin-s along with the steadimate-s.
Maybe I just shoot the walk/talk scenes with the osmo pocket that I have. The critics will probably hail me as a genius.
It's been 2 years since the original osmo came out - they usually update their stuff (I've read) about every 2 years.
i know with Covid and shutdowns - who knows when they will release V2. Maybe the new codec will play nice with the bmpc4k which I will shoot the rest of the film on.
Well as Cassavetes said "Monday we start shooting whether we have film in the camera or not!"
 
John Brawley said:
I feel like I’ve used a version of that.

GripTech stuff is ok. I’ve used their sliders before too.

I think it’s fine. The question was asked and I think these solutions aren’t what was being asked for here, but those are the more “de facto” do it right in the first place answers.

JB
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Thanks JB.
 
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