Wait a minute....Barry, did you say it can "STREAM" to a Laptop Hard Drive??

Some software engineer should come up with a OS/firmware/software hack that turns an iPod Photo into a DVCPRO100 recording device, provided the HD inside the iPod can write fast enough without interruption.
 
Or to an Epson or Zen portable media player.

As is, the Ipod Photo uses a 4200RPM drive, and I have heard people using them to edit DVCPRO HD footage with FCP, without dropped frames. So it shouldn't be a problem regarding the Firewire and the speed of the HD.
 
Bart_Boge said:
Mr. Cheung,

But then you should REVISE your article, because we all know that standard FW400 can handle DVCPROHD(100) streams. As Barry has said, Apple announced this a YEAR ago.
Click to expand...

I think I explained this in the last sentence of my post....

It takes for the webmaster to do the changes... they work on german time, so they are opposite of USA.
 
I have a Zen, and it runs out of battery relatively fast when transferring data over USB 2.0 (I have to measure its life). The battery is replaceable and costs $50 each.
Creative made sure it's like no other battery on the market; one of the Nokia batteries matches the size, but there you have to rewire the inside of it to work + it won't be rechargeable when charged directly from the player).
I guess, you can buy 7-10 Zen batteries and use Zen as a "P2". The question is only to build a charger for at least 2-3 Zen batteries to charge them independently of the Zen.
Of course, all that is worth reading if you can actually use Zen as a storage device.
 
Barry_Green said:
Mr. Cheung,

If you're at the booth, definitely talk to Jan Crittenden Livingston, she's the product manager for the HVX line and is the single most knowledgeable person about the HVX.

DV Rack doesn't currently support DVCPRO-HD. So if you were using the HVX with the existing version of DV Rack, DV Rack would only be able to recognize the SD signal. But if they were to update their software to understand the DVCPRO-HD codec, then you could definitely use it with the full HD stream. The camera unquestionably supports full-bandwidth streaming of all the codecs. The limitation about SD is DV Rack's limitation, not the camera's limitation.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I was only in Vegas for Sun-Tuesday night, so I can't go to their booth.

I feel sorry for the Panasonic guys/gals as they were getting barraged with questions.

Yes, I realize that DVRack only handles SD now. They annouced the HDV plugin at NAB. I asked the question to see if owners of direct-disk solutions such as DVRack and Firestore would still be supported to any degree.

I really wished the reps would have answered the questions of the P2 8GB card costs (of course that can be inferred from the total package price with two cards). I heard the question asked several times while I was shooting pictures at the booth.


Thanks
 
The existing DV Rack and FireStore are only capable of handling the 25-megabit data rate, which is used by DV and by HDV. They'd have to change their products to support the 100-megabit data rate of DVCPRO-HD. So I can certainly see how confusion could set in -- if you wanted to use a FireStore FS-4 with the HVX, you would indeed only be able to record SD DV on it. That's not a limitation of the camera though, it's a limitation of the FS-4. We'll need to see new, updated products from these companies to take advantage of the HD capability.

As far as the card price, I know what you're saying, and all I can offer is: if they were to try to predict the price of a memory card, six months away from its being released, they'd need a Ouija board to do that! I'm sure they're taking the conservative approach and not committing to a price that they may not be able to meet. However, with the bundle, they're committing to a not-to-exceed price, which is cool of them, because what if the cards actually cost $2500 each when the camera comes out? You'd get a significant discount by buying the bundle. On the other hand, if the cards cost $1500 when they come out, nobody will buy the bundle. So either way, they're giving us a sort of price protection, we know that we'll be able to buy at least two at no more than $2,000 each because we can get them in the bundle.
 
not5150 said:
I then asked about direct to harddrive recording, because I use DVRack. He said that the camcorder only does SD over the firewire connection. I should have come back to the booth to inquire more, but I had a meeting in South Hall.
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I must have spoken with the same guy because that's exactly what I heard as well. It's no wonder we're confused as hell about this.

Thanks for clarifying everything Barry!!

Now my big issue is I wish we weren't waiting 6 months.

It could be worse. The Canon booth was dead. I mean every other booth was hopping - Sony, Panasonic, JVC, Ikegami... Canon was like a morgue when I rolled through.
 
Canon was like a morgue when I rolled through.
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That's a good indication that chemistry in Canon's labs is boiling. At least, that's what it's better be doing, or otherwise they'll quickly get behind everyone.
 
Dmitry Kichenko said:
Canon......they'll quickly get behind everyone.
Click to expand...

Them sorry rascals' are always bringing up the rear. They'll probably wait around till' Mid/Late 06' to actually deliver something though. And it will most like be *OK*....maybe even *GREAT*....but they are just too little too late. But don't think for a second that if they actually released a cam that kicked major stink-tail, that I wouldn't buy it.....cause' I damn sure would. That's the great thing about "bringin' up the rear".....you always have the *opportunity* to top your competitors.....although at the expense of entering the market WAY late!! Think Microsoft and XBOX. Ring any bells?

~reservoir~
 
Depends on what the camera Canon will have to offer. Panasonic... They just implementing so many 'Pro cam' features in HVX200 that it is a serious menace for Canon now. The only way for Canon to sell at least some units is to, again, make the lenses interchangeable, and maybe throw in some other toys, like, I don't know, free directional mic or something.
I mean, I kind of understand why Panasonic is doing what it is - Sony had its time developing the HDV standard, while Panasonic really ended up having nothing to offer, so the solution would be to use the existing DVCPRO HD standard and give it to the 'masses'. At the expense of hurting the 'Pro cams' a bit, probably; but most likely the future sales of HVX200 will exceed the money lost on Pro units that weren't sold. That's my understanding, and it is just a semi-educated guess. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
 
On the second thought, I'm more pleased to think that Panasonic was all thrilled to finally give the "pro-quality-wannabes" what they were praying for all these years! :) And instead of moving from HDV to HDV-Pro to other not entirely pro formats, they want to get us straight to the top! :grin:
 
I'm sure we all would. But is the ipod capable of sustaining the data transfer rate for capture? Over the full surface of the disk? Those are questions that I don't know how you answer, because you won't know whether it bogged down and dropped frames or anything until it's too late.

You can file-transfer to it, that's already confirmed. But streaming? It will be interesting to see how that experiment plays out.
 
iPod and Zen have a mini OS built in, right? I'm not sure if there's a firmware SDK available from Creative, definetely none from Apple. But if only we could take hold of that little chip inside and make it allow the direct copying over to Zen, that would be, well, awesome. hehe.
I guess in case there is no way to modify the firmware, we'll need someone with good knowledge of assembly :). I'll start looking for people.
 
Ipod is too slow for direct recording. You need a powered hdd like a external Western Digital or Segate (forget "crash" maxtor) :)
 
soarprod said:
Ipod is too slow for direct recording. You need a powered hdd like a external Western Digital or Segate (forget "crash" maxtor) :)
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Not so sure if they are too slow. i have edited footage in DV with them. DVCPRO HD is more in Mbs, but not that much more. Who knows, we will need to experiment once this camera is out.
 
Yes that much more. 4x more. It's 13 megabytes a second, vs. 3.6 megabytes per second. It's seriously more, that's why there's a concern about small drives like that.

Now, if you're talking about 720/24p, no it's not that much more, it's 40mbps vs. 25. But for streaming out the firewire port, I'm fairly certain it's going to be the full 100mbps stream at all times, so it's a *lot* more than DV. It's 4 times as much.
 
Barry_Green said:
Now, if you're talking about 720/24p, no it's not that much more, it's 40mbps vs. 25. But for streaming out the firewire port, I'm fairly certain it's going to be the full 100mbps stream at all times, so it's a *lot* more than DV. It's 4 times as much.
Click to expand...

I was referring to 720/24p. But WHO KNOWS what this camera will stream out the Firewire port? No one. Not yet. I dont think the Panasonic people have even decided on that.
 
Duh.. We know THAT already for certain. The only way you can get more than 100mbit/s streaming out of the camera is through the composite output, which supposedly offers uncompressed HD (of course the output is analog). I'd use that one for some FX shots and keying to minimize the loss of color and detail.
 
soarprod said:
You need a powered hdd like a external Western Digital or Segate (forget "crash" maxtor) :)
Click to expand...

I'm surprised you say that - from experience I find Seagate to be the most crashing-prone. I've used quite a few Western Digital and Maxtor drives and have never experienced a crash or data-loss. I owned one Seagate and I experienced a bit of data-loss, but I looking back now, it could have been the motherboard serving it, rather than the drive itself. Admittedly, that was a decade ago, quite literally, so I'm guessing things have changed. Or maybe I've been lucky :happy:

The cheapest method to stream HD-recording for the time being would be to get an external drive with a battery pack (similar to what you can get for laptops). Noise, and even possibly heat could be an issue though. In addition to this, how long the battery would last with the drive writing HD constantly is another mystery. I find most drives last about an hour and a half writing DV on a ~2kmAh battery.
 
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