Video out the window of a plane

P

phkc070408

New member
Good day all:

I have a GoPro and enjoy making videos out the window of airplanes as they take off and land. Obviously we are moving very fast during part of the video. I'm wondering what the best frame rate to capture the raw footage is, and also, should I export to a different frame rate after post? I've watched a bunch of these videos made by others. While some look good, others look choppy.

Also, while most of my videos are during the day, some are at night. The videos I've made at night are generally pretty dark with bright lights in the background where the terminal building is. If possible, I'd like to try and make the dark background slightly brighter, so you can at least see the features. Also, as you can see, the night video is somewhat grany. I had to bump the iso up on my camera. If anyone has any recommendations for the night videos as well, I'd appreciate it.

PS - I realize the GoPro is a simple camera with minimal features, however the suction cup mount works great to minimize shake. I tried using my iPhone once, however it couldn't focus right. My DSLR is just too big an impossible to hold still when the plane it in motion.

Thanks
 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    806.2 KB · Views: 4
  • 2.png
    2.png
    886.2 KB · Views: 4
The usual choices for framerates would either be the standard 24p/25p or 50p/60p (depending on where you live) to playback on a 24p/25p or 50p/60p timeline in real-time (no slow-motion).

Or 24p/25p that is mixed with 50fps-240fps footage [interpreted as slow-motion in post] to playback on a 24p/25p timeline.

It depends on what you want, but if slow-motion is ever desired, the second option is most common so you get a normal video with real-time clips, but any slow-motion in it is smooth (this is the best method to produce slow-motion). There is also info to know about how cameras might do this internally, shutter speed sweet spots, how higher framerates and shutter speeds affect exposure, etc...but I'll skip that for now.

In your situation, if you don't want slow-motion (to either help further stabilize any clips or for any shots where it may look cool) then 24p/25p would be best (especially if you're trying to squeeze in as much light as possible).

As far as the overall levels, the dynamic range is a lot to overcome. I don't know which GoPro you're using or how the newest ones are, but a small sensor pointing at pitch black with bright lights (all through a window which may produce reflections) might need some great noise reduction and AI assistance.

Shooting in LOG could also help so when you crush down the blacks a little to reduce the noise, the lights might still have some detail in them.

[There are suction cup mounts for mobile.]
 
I’m not looking to do any SLO-mo. Everything would be done in real time.

For the day videos, would 60fps make it look choppy?

For night, I can definitely do 24 or even 30fps.

I’m in the USA, so NTSC format.
 
The more frames you have, the smoother the footage, so it's the opposite; 60p played back in 60p would look smooth, possibly providing you the best result if that's what you want. [Picture how choppy silent films were back in the early days at ~15fps.]

But if you throw 60p into a 24p timeline as is (no slow-motion) then the NLE will drop frames and it could make the footage look choppy (but that depends on what's in the frame and if the camera is static or moving).
 
Putting 60fps video into a 24fps timeline - Even a noob like me knows better than to do that. Maybe that’s what I’m seeing when I see other ppls video look choppy.

I’m going to stick with 60 during the day and 30 at night.

I’m still unsure what to do about the ISO at night. A low iso gives me a near pitch black screen with clean lights. A high ISO gives me more features, but sometimes overbearing lights and a lot of grain, I have a licensed to “Neat Video,” a de-noise for Premiere Pro. It works good for the noise, but the lights are still overbearing.
 
People have been editing footage incorrectly (like the file-handling) for as long as I have seen it, around 19 years.

60 and 30 is fine if they are separate videos, but why not 24 then instead of 30?

There's nothing really to consider with the ISO; the camera's sensor is too small, the lens aperture isn't the fastest it can be, dynamic range is drastic.

Internal noise reduction might help (or post), but you're still getting like 10 stops without LOG and maybe, at best, 12 stops with LOG.

Professionals would shoot LOG and do what I mentioned above, but sometimes you just let it go and shoot normally because you really can't do much.
 
For better low light performance you need a camera with a bigger sensor. Full frame mirror less is the best gets complicated and expensive around $2,000+ with lens.

Choppy video could be in low light situations cameras can drop the shutter speed to let in more light.

Some modern action cams have night mode that increases the gain while boosting the noise reduction

Insta360 and latest DJI night mode is much improved. You can watch YT reviews.
 
Last edited:
Being in America hasn’t meant NTSC for years, same with PAL, we dont really come across that as an issue anymore, now digits rule the world. Some of the sharpest, least grainy video I get comes from phones. You can get apps for iphones, for example that let you take charge of the camera, and have control of frame rates and the image. As evryone is saying, most really good cameras do low light poorly. The snag with aircraft windows is the double skin perspex. Internal light getting into the cavity and bouncing around. A friend has a piece of black cloth, with a circle cut out dead centre for the lens. He blu tacs the cloth to the window to keep the light out, and gets really good images from his phone. The thing he moans about is the condition of the window surface. Often crazed and this messes up the point source ground lights, softening the image, but i guess youve experienced this already.
 
Display Frequence consideration still matters, and the NTSC / PAL divide still influences what certain displays can do. If your intended audience is:
- Mobile/Cell Phones: Then a clean multiple/division of 60fps is best as almost all phone start at 60hz with some models offering faster refresh rates in steps of 30hz
- TV: Most NTSC territories have their TV's defaulted to 60hz, and PAL territories to 50hz as this is what the broadcasters use in their transmissions. Some equipment does do display rate matching (eg the Apple TV Box) that can switch the frequence of the TV to match the frame rate of the content. But this is likely to only be a small segment of users who will set this up.
- Monitors: Could be anything these days. Many dedicated SW Players can be setup to do display rate changing to match the frequence to the frame rate but I'd think most would not use this and content would play at whatever frequency the monitor is set at.

If I was US based, with a US intended audience (or mostly Phones as the target)... I'd shoot 60fps at 360 degrees on a 60fps timeline.
 
Thanks all for the responses. A lot to take in. So far, here's what I'm hearing.

1. Shoot in Log.
2. A large sensor would be better.
3. My Audience is primarily YouTube sharing, so NTSC/PAL doesn't matter as much (I still prefer so stick with NTSC frame rates, out of habit.)

To answer some questions from above:

1. My GoPro is an Insta 360 One RS with the 4k lens. I call it a Go-Pro since most people are more familiar with GoPro than Insta. Please forgive me for the mis-information.
2. I will have my full frame DSLR on me (5D Mark IV). I could try and use this, however I question my ability to hold it still, especially for the 15 minutes of so that I'll need to. I can use a lens with image stabilization / vibration control to help, and hold the lens up onto the window for support, but even then, it's a heavy camera to hold still for 15 minutes of so.
3. I have a licenses to "NeatVideo," a 3rd party plugin for Adobe Premiere Pro that is designed to reduce noise.

Regarding using the iPhone, I tired my iPhone on one trip and it didn't work well. My main issue was focus settings, where the camera would keep trying to focus.

Update: I downloaded two Video Camera apps for my iPhone 14 Pro Max. Final Cut Camera and Black Magic Cam. Both have good reviews and I think I can work with these. I also believe I learned that my iPhone 14 Pro Max has a similar sensor size 1/1.28 or 0.4921" across, when using the 24mm lens, where the Insta 360's 0.5" sensor. I do have a few questions:

1. What would be the best way to focus? Keep in mind that during a takeoff, all subject objects are near , some as close as 10 feet away, and move farther away as we takeoff, to as far as 20,000 feet away. Likewise, as we land, subject items start farther away and come closer as we land. I guess I could go with a small aperture (high number, small hole).
2. The Insta 360 One RS with the 4k lens does a great job of keeping in focus. My understanding is they are fixed focus cameras with a fixed f2.4 aperture. How does it keep focus as my camera moves closer and farther from my subjects?

Finally, If you guys, the experts were doing what I'm doing, which camera would you use and why? Would you use the same camera for day and night filming?

(sorry for rambling, but the more I think about this, the more questions I have).
 
Last edited:
iPhones [mainly newer ones] might be the only devices in the world that are able to do so much with a small sensor. All of the [artificial] magic that's going on inside them is helping a lot.

You can lock focus on them (without any external apps) by pressing and holding the screen at the spot you want to do that and I'd just lock it at the furthest point away even if the foreground becomes a tiny bit soft (which is what the Insta is doing, focusing at infinity). Nothing gets too close to the plane where it will really matter based on what you're doing and everything further away will be in focus because of the small sensor (and especially in the day when the aperture is smaller as it adjusts itself to the light if you're not using a ND filter).

I would use my 16PM for this. It's easy, quick, I think it would look great more times than not. If there was no window and you had the freedom of mounting a camera properly on the inside or outside, mirrorless'/DSLRs would be the better option.

The 5DIV would only work if it's mounted and in 4K (which is cropped, but that might be okay). 1080p is pixel-binned and line-skipped so the result would be much softer, something you probably don't want if you're using noise reduction which will result in some quality loss. NV is better than the free built-in noise reduction options, but some AI would be needed to replace, restructure any significant loss of detail.
___

At the end of the day - and when crticially-thinking about it - it is a video out of a plane window.

And it is only going to get as good as life's circumstances allows it; your seat, your view, the weather, the condition of the window, lighting, reflections, etc.
 
Nor: Thanks for all of the help. My first few flights I should have 2 windows. I think I'll try the iPhone and use the Insta as a backup. If I'm successful with those, I'll use the iPhone for the rest of the trip. If not, I'll use the Insta.

More than half of my issues with the iPhone the last time I tried were focus related. I'm more comfortable using a 3rd party app and manually focusing on infinity than I am trying to focus with the iPhone's native touch.

Also, I bought a NISI iPhone filter kit that came with a Polarizing Filter. I tried that for anti-glare, but thing that also casued me more problems than good. I know that when takingstills out the window with my 5Div, I get better pictures if I take my CPL off. It must be something with the glass on the plane.

I'm going to shoot H265 60fps during daylight, since I'm more focused on the detail shown than the cinematic feel. While I learned that the aperture on the phone is fixed, I can adjust the iso as needed, not to exceed 1600 if possible (I'm hoping to go much lower in daylight). At night, I'll probably drop it to 24fps to allow as much light entry as possible, even if it means a little bit of motion blur. Again, I'll try and keep the ISO at or below 1600 to prevent as much noise as possible. I also don't want the runway and terminal lights becoming overbearing.
 
OK - an update to the conversation: I got a new Phone 16 Pro Max. Also, I downloaded the recording App Black Magic Recorder.

I made several test runs, all at night, since mastering night recording should solve all issues of day recording as well. My test track is a 6 lane suburban highway with shopping centers and businesses on the other side of the road, doing about 45-50mph. This is the best I can do to simulate the plane on the runway, when objects are passing the camera at the fastest speed.

I found that setting the focus to manual, and 8.4 gives the best results. (I'm not sure what the 8.4 means, but it's 8.4 out of 10)
I go with 4K, 60fps, 120 shutter, and the ISO at 3200 gives me a good picture. I save as Apple ProRes 422. Even recording at night, the 60fps is giving a better picture than 32fps.

I have one question - there is a "Apple Log-HDR" color option under Color Space.. Is that the recommended option? I get the impression that using Log dissimilar to shooting still photos in RAW.

1. Should I use the LOG setting for my videos at night?
2. Should I use the LOG setting for my videos during daylight?
3. What's the best program for post production with LOG recorded videos? I do have the full Adobe Creative Suite, with Premiere Pro, After Effects, etc.
 
LOG will keep more detail in the lights (less blobs of brightness, less blowing out), but you'll have no color or contrast that you'll need to put back in.

Any major NLE will work, look into LUTs as well.
 
Well, I did another test video tonight, using LOG and trying a few LUTs, and I was rather impressed. Guys - I think I'm good for here. Thanks for all of the help.

I'm going to keep this page bookmarked, just in case any more questions come up, but I think a few more test videos will get me where I want to be.

Thanks again!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top