Video Demonstration: H.264 AVC vs H.265 HEVC (4K/60fps @ 10 Mbps)

Bassman2003 said:
Which leads me back to what I posted about h.265 Basically who cares? People watching content on their phones are now going to be the decision makers for the industry? I say this because we have the superior delivery quality format (Blu-ray) and the majority of folks choose their cell phone or YouTube instead.
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Who won't benefit from improved compression though? It's not like H.265 is only for 4K content. It will provide small, faster downloads/streams w/o sacrificing quality. Sure, many people are streaming content on mobile devices but many people are streaming content to the living room TV too. The market isn't shifting to mobile viewing and away from traditional viewing, it's expanding to include mobile viewing.


-Andrew
 
Sure you are correct and I stated the improvements are good. No issues with better compression. I just need to know when I can use it and know the customer has it as well. It is frustrating to hear "your video won't play" after a delivery.
 
With data caps on mobile connections, h.265 will be a welcome addition once the hardware encoders/decoders make their way into new devices. Even if they are only watching 1080p content.

I think blu-ray still has a way to go. Once new 4K BDXL (or whatever they are called) hit the market it will only expand the usefulness of blu-ray. But I do worry about how those will work and how they will be marketed. The last thing you need are consumers buying movies in BDXL format and trying to play them on their standard blu-ray players to no avail.
 
roxics said:
I think blu-ray still has a way to go. Once new 4K BDXL (or whatever they are called) hit the market it will only expand the usefulness of blu-ray. But I do worry about how those will work and how they will be marketed. The last thing you need are consumers buying movies in BDXL format and trying to play them on their standard blu-ray players to no avail.
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Sony is already muddying the waters by releasing 4K mastered movies. The movies themselves are 1080p but it's from a new, 4K master. Yeah, this isn't going to confuse customers...
 
adkimery said:
That's like saying if you aren't Michael Jordan or Larry Bird you suck at basketball. With regards to price, first gen DVD players were around a grand and I remember when CD blanks were more expensive than Blu-ray blanks are today. Everything starts out expensive and gets cheaper over time.

DVD had the good fortune of landing in the marketplace at the perfect time where as Blu-ray landed when the marketplace was fracturing and anyone that thought Blu-ray would put the same numbers, or better, compared to DVD was dreaming.


-Andrew
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DVD still sells better than Blu-Rays, it is almost 80% against 20%. There is no problem in saying that Blu-Ray flopped, the idea for most companies is that their new product will sell/make more money than their last product, which clearly isn't the case with Blu-Ray.

The first computer my family got when I was a kid (1997) cost around 40 000 SEK, roughly 6000$ today I can get the "equivalent" for 1000$, likewise, when cellphones first came they cost around 3000$. But with Blu-Ray they thought "we can reset to the same old price as DVDs used to have" it would be the same thing as Apple thinking their next iPhone should cost 3000$ because that's what a new phone cost in the early 90's.

I think it is great that they are creating better codecs, because hardware is getting faster all the time, nowdays I can have a media player that is quiet and small stream movies in 1080p for me, 4-6 years ago I had to use a whole HTPC for it, so clearly it shouldn't be a problem to create new hardware accelerated h265, since we have had for 2-3 years good h264 encoders, and h264 should hit the streets in about a year. Point being, in 4 years (Moore's law being more like 18 months), the computer speed will more than double so making a codec twice as hard should be a no biggie. I will also welcome h265 into new DSLRs, even though I am probably just doing RAW by then...
 
High1ander said:
DVD still sells better than Blu-Rays, it is almost 80% against 20%. There is no problem in saying that Blu-Ray flopped, the idea for most companies is that their new product will sell/make more money than their last product, which clearly isn't the case with Blu-Ray.
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Funny, because apparently Skyfall's Blu-ray (not DVD) counted for 63% of overall disc sales.
 
High1ander said:
http://www.homemediamagazine.com/market-analysis/sales-report-week-ended-021613
It's the site that your link refers too...
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That's the site I've referenced several times in this discussion. Yes it's true that in terms of overall unit sales, DVD still whomps blu-ray by a 4-1 margin (last week it was 78.53% DVD, 21.47% blu-ray). The dollars spent looks a little better for blu-ray, in that 67% of consumer dollars went to DVD, 33% went to blu-ray, but that's really only because blu-rays cost twice as much as DVDs (avg $19.62 per blu-ray vs. avg $11 for DVD).

Yes Skyfall bucked the overall trend, selling 63% of its sales on blu-ray vs. 37% on DVD. And in fact the newest, hottest titles usually do vastly better on blu-ray than anything that has been around a while. However, overall as a market, the consumer still buys four times as many DVDs as they do blu-rays.
 
Gary Huff said:
It's the stats for one week. Doesn't really give an example of the whole picture.
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I've been checking in on that site for years. It's ALWAYS the same story. Blu-ray is actually shockingly high this week, at over 20%. For years and years and years they barely ever broke 11%.
 
Gary Huff said:
It's the stats for one week. Doesn't really give an example of the whole picture.
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And one movie does?

At the bottom of the page you can see "this year" in DVD and Blu-Ray sales. The simple fact is that DVD's are still going strong, even 7-8 years since its superior competitor came along. DVD's beat VHS after 3-4 years...
 
Barry_Green said:
That's the site I've referenced several times in this discussion. Yes it's true that in terms of overall unit sales, DVD still whomps blu-ray by a 4-1 margin (last week it was 78.53% DVD, 21.47% blu-ray). The dollars spent looks a little better for blu-ray, in that 67% of consumer dollars went to DVD, 33% went to blu-ray, but that's really only because blu-rays cost twice as much as DVDs (avg $19.62 per blu-ray vs. avg $11 for DVD).

Yes Skyfall bucked the overall trend, selling 63% of its sales on blu-ray vs. 37% on DVD. And in fact the newest, hottest titles usually do vastly better on blu-ray than anything that has been around a while. However, overall as a market, the consumer still buys four times as many DVDs as they do blu-rays.
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I'm not arguing against any of that, but in Gary's book I could make a reference to Pearl Harbor and use that to say the Japanese won the war against the Americans.
 
I have around 600 DVD's. Started buying Blu-Ray about two-years ago. Haven't bought a DVD since (except for a few Takeshi Kitano and Wong Kar Wai movies that I couldn't get on Blu-Ray). Really love the quality of Blu-Ray. It's hard to go back to DVD - however, I have seen some awful Blu-Ray transfers that look no better than the DVD - very rare though.
 
High1ander said:
And one movie does? At the bottom of the page you can see "this year" in DVD and Blu-Ray sales. The simple fact is that DVD's are still going strong, even 7-8 years since its superior competitor came along. DVD's beat VHS after 3-4 years...
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Not at all, but it's clear that the newest, hottest movie, in which people are probably more likely to care about the overall quality, does buck that trend.

However, to your overall point, I stand corrected.
 
High1ander said:
DVD still sells better than Blu-Rays, it is almost 80% against 20%. There is no problem in saying that Blu-Ray flopped, the idea for most companies is that their new product will sell/make more money than their last product, which clearly isn't the case with Blu-Ray.
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All other things being equal I agree, but when the market has changed and your previous product's adaption rate was lightening in a bottle I think you have to temper expectations. Hitting a home run every time isn't realistic especially when the outfield wall has moved further away since your previous at bat. Look at TV ratings. The best rated shows today pull numbers that would've got them cancelled during primetime's heyday of the early 80's but I wouldn't consider them flops. The market has changed and our definition of success has changed with it.

I guess I don't consider Blu-ray a flop because it's performing as I expected it to perform. It was a new entry in a formerly homogeneous market that fractured and will only become more fractured as time goes on. If Sony expected Blu-ray to be the next DVD then it will flop and was destined to from day one w/those kinds of expectations.

High1ander said:
At the bottom of the page you can see "this year" in DVD and Blu-Ray sales. The simple fact is that DVD's are still going strong, even 7-8 years since its superior competitor came along. DVD's beat VHS after 3-4 years...
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It took DVD 5 years to surpass VHS sales in terms of revenue (DVDs were more expensive so I'm not sure at what later point DVD solid more units than VHS). http://www.dvdinformation.com/News/press/010802.htm

It took 7 years for DVD rentals to become more popular than VHS rentals and it took a decade for DVD players to outnumber VHS players in homes. http://www.freshdv.com/2006/12/dvd-player-finally-surpasses-vcr.html

Keep in mind that at the time DVD was the fastest adopted consumer technology ever (it now is #2 behind the iPod).

DVD sales have been declining since '06 which just showcases the fracturing nature of the market place that even w/DVDs decline Blu-ray isn't doing better. This reminds me of CD vs digital music sales. CD sales have dropped by over 50% since '99 but it was only in 2011 that digital sales finally overtook CD sales... by .3%. Even with all the hoopla about the growth of digital the CD fell below digital more than digital climbed past the CD (if that makes sense).

-Andrew
 
atarijedi said:
No more talking about DVD vs Blu-ray! This is about H.264 vs H.265!
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H.265 will surplant H.264 the way H.264 has supplanted MPEG2 for content delivery. It will allow for current video content to be delivered at smaller file sizes with no loss in quality and it will allow future 4K video content to compressed into a viable size without killing image quality. There's going to be a transition period from H.264 to H.265 but it's not going to erupt into a this vs that war like HD-DVD vs Blu-ray or HTLM 5 vs Flash.
 
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