Viable Lens choice

F

Finner

Active member
I sure hope someone with some strong lens experience can answer this question as I have been trying to find one for quite a while in the Red threads.

Like many of us I have a Red on the way and no lens for it. I shoot the gammut from high end to lower end productions. I know what kind of lens I would really like and know the high end lens market quite well but somewhere I need to think about cost. My high end work will always have producers ready to rent a great quality lens package so what I need is a cheaper lens system for small budget shoots. I do not want to have to pull out a HVX because it is a small budget shoot. I want to be able to use my Red on every project I do. I want the practice to become so proficent at using the Red that every feature and option will become second nature. I am possitive that no one who has a Red will want to leave it on there shelf and run with any other camera.

So here is my question. I have tons of 35mm motion picture experience but very very little stills experience. I hear a lot about putting a stills lens on the Red so what will work well and give me some kind of comparable quality to the HD cameras out there?

Please do not let this thread go into a Cooke, Angenuix, Panavision lens debate. This thread is about a cost effective alternative to be able to make our Red cameras the flexible tool I think it should be.

It would be great if we could pool resources and figure out what kind of lens system is going to work great for that corporate video, that Public service announcement for the chairity with next to no money or even just a day off that make us think "Hey I should go find something cool to shoot.". I am buying a red because I feel it can hold its own against any camera and that it can be the one and only camera I use.

Sorry for this being so long I just wanted to make sure that I was clear in stating my intentions (Which may be to date Jims daughter if it could get me a family discount http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/images/icons/icon10.gif).

Thanks
D.
 
I am not 100% sure, but I believe REDONE will also come with a B4 mount option, no? Those lenses can be had for (relatively) little money, although I am not sure how well a non-HD version will work with RED.

So it would be interested to find out how well or how poorly (or if at all) REDONE would cope with a low-cost FUJINON or CANON lens.

Wait....on reflection, it might be the RED LENS that comes with a B4 option, not the cam?
 
I checked the thread that tonacidigital put on his message it showed some good stills prime lens options but nothing about a zoom.

Does anyone know what kind of zoom would work well?

Also what kind of adapter would I have to buy for PL-stills lens mount?

rough prices on these items would be helpful as well.

I apologize if all this has been gone through already I just (very thankfully) learned of Red about 10 days ago and put in my reservation in on the 31st.
 
All RED lenses will be PL mount. A B4 mount is restricted to 1080P shooting, which is why we don't like it (at least one of the reasons). If a 35mm PL mount lens is out of your budget, we recommend an S16 lens and shooting 2k. Or a Nikon or Canon manual still lens. But then you have some focus throw issues and an angle of view issue. A manual full frame lens for still photography will shoot longer than a 35mm cine lens because the image size (sensor) is larger on a full frame still camera. It is difficult to shoot wide with a still lens. An APS size still lens is very close to cine 35. But most APS size DSLR lenses don't give you control over the aperture. Confused?

Jim
 
Jannard said:
All RED lenses will be PL mount. A B4 mount is restricted to 1080P shooting, which is why we don't like it...
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Yeah, I figured as much. Thanks for the response.
But: will REDONE be available with a B4 mount as an option? I understand the limitations, although honestly speaking, it is still a little wry to call 1080p a "limitation"......you RED people you... :)
 
Thanks Jim

I am now clear on why eveyone is talking about "old cine lens". Fortunately I have some close contacts with some rental houses and know some fellow dp's that own a lot of glass. So for now I wait until the Red zoom is tested and available for sale again (I don't want to run out and buy a cooke or other lens and put myself in a position of coveting the Red zoom when it comes out.).

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to respond. I wish I knew Digital half as well as I know film but I am learning.
 
Jannard said:
...But then you have some focus throw issues and an angle of view issue. A manual full frame lens for still photography will shoot longer than a 35mm cine lens because the image size (sensor) is larger on a full frame still camera. It is difficult to shoot wide with a still lens. An APS size still lens is very close to cine 35. But most APS size DSLR lenses don't give you control over the aperture....
Click to expand...
Is this also true with all ARRI/Panavision 35mm cine cameras also, that the film size is smaller than 35mm still camera's film or just in the RED's case?
 
He means that not many manual 35mm still lenses go wide enough for the super 35mm format, about 1.5x magnification comaperd to 35mm still. That's mostly true, although Nikon did make the very sharp and well corrected 15mm f3.5 (On Red it would approximate 22.5mm in 35mm still format).
 
evinsky said:
He means that not many manual 35mm still lenses go wide enough for the super 35mm format, about 1.5x magnification comaperd to 35mm still. That's mostly true, although Nikon did make the very sharp and well corrected 15mm f3.5 (On Red it would approximate 22.5mm in 35mm still format).
Click to expand...
I understand what he meant. I'm just wondering if all (ARRI's/Panavision's) cine 35mm film size is also smaller than 35mm film/sensor.
 
Y.Goh said:
I understand what he meant. I'm just wondering if all (ARRI's/Panavision's) cine 35mm film size is also smaller than 35mm film/sensor.
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Yes, Cine 35 (if you prefer to call it that way) is an international standard and every manufacturer abides by it. Super 35 is Super 35 and S16 is S16.

The width of the frame is the same everywhere you go. The variation is in the aspect ratio which dictates the height of the frame. Since the width is a constant, the height of a given aspect ratio, 1:1.85 for instance, remains the same any camera you use. These dimensions are set by international standard organizations, SMPTE in the US being the most prominent one in the field of film and TV industry.
 
Jannard said:
A B4 mount is restricted to 1080P shooting, which is why we don't like it (at least one of the reasons).
Jim
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with all due respect. mr. jannard, but the B4 zeiss digiprimes as well as the angenieux 40x, 26.8x and 10x are amongst the best lenses i have ever put my greedy hands on.

both lense systems are incredible sharp, even at fully open, both have a nearly total absence of chromatic as well lumatic abberations, and they do represent what the fine engineers at angenieux and zeiss did learn in the recent 50 years or so.

however, regarding the red sensor, i am fully aware that b4 is covering the least amount of it.

i have no way of trying it now, but i suppose that the latest-generation zeiss digiprimes as well as the angenieux HD zoom will offer superior perormance over their elder s16 brothers and sisters.

2 remarks, both with a smile:
p.s. 2 : angenieux lenses are called angels here.
p.s. 2 : as i am, sadly?, no billionaire as of yet (my first overtaking the world plan didn=t work so well as expected, but we are working on the spare one), i have a strong connection to my gear, and i worked like mad 2 years in a row to get the first B4 HD angenieux to germany, so pardon me if i am overcorrect on the B4 topic and maybe even a LITTLE bit biased ...
 
The B4 digiprimes are made to specifically suite the 3CCD prism picupdevices.
Red Green and Blue have their focus plane slightly offset in the prism. As Zeiss claims, great care was taken during the design of the lens in order to perform better at wide open.

Johlan
 
evinsky said:
He means that not many manual 35mm still lenses go wide enough for the super 35mm format, about 1.5x magnification comaperd to 35mm still. That's mostly true, although Nikon did make the very sharp and well corrected 15mm f3.5 (On Red it would approximate 22.5mm in 35mm still format).
Click to expand...

Hi,

A 15mm lens mounted on a Red camera will give exactly the same field of view regardless of who built it.

A 15mm lens is not that wide for 16mm but very wide for 35mm still photography, if that helps!

Stephen
 
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