VFR mode on the AF101 may have cost me my biggest client today!

Barry_Green said:
I agree it should be there. Or on the Function Knob. It's a new workflow for us old dogs, but it's a good one -- the ISO is soooo frickin' clean that it is a totally viable way to work with this camera, and having more accessibility to it would be welcome.
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Totally!

I shot today with natural light on a partly cloudy day and had my L set to 200ISO and M set to 400ISO. I just switched between them when the clouds opened and closed. It really would be nice to have been able to do that (and more) with the wheel.
 
Steve Kahn said:
Totally!

I shot today with natural light on a partly cloudy day and had my L set to 200ISO and M set to 400ISO. I just switched between them when the clouds opened and closed. It really would be nice to have been able to do that (and more) with the wheel.
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Was that ISO gain switch too slow for you or something....and is a simple one stop adjustment like that with the aperture ring also too slow?

I guess ...wading thru the muti function wheel functions (without invoking VFR ) must be faster for you!

BTW - does anyone re-Black Balance when they change ISO?
 
That is a silly question.

Why not just put VFR on a three way switch too? Hell people only use 30, 48, and 60 for the most part anyway. Right?

With low ISOs being so clean why not use them to fine ttune exposure? And I'm talking very fine tune not using them to replace lighting the scene but to be delicately used with aperture to control light. At low ISOs this is a very reasonable concept especially in situations when adjustment in aperture is not possible or not desired.

My shot was a case where I did not want to touch the lens. I was shooting take after take in slightly changing light in a situation where focus was tough to get. After it was dialed in I frankly didn't want to risk touching the focus ring instead of the aperture. After a long day of shooting silly mistakes happen and I was too tired to even want to risk it - or worse throw off my focus then not spot my mistake. So yes, in my situation it made much more sense to me to fine tune ISO.

Finally, was wondering if you think the whole movie industry is wrong for not using a single ultra slow, ultra low grain ISO speed film and too lazy to adjust their aperture dials as well?
 
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steve kahn said:
that is a silly question.

Why not just put vfr on a three way switch too? Hell people only use 30, 48, and 60 for the most part anyway. Right?

With low isos being so clean why not use them to fine ttune exposure? And i'm talking very fine tune not using them to replace lighting the scene but to be delicately used with aperture to control light. At low isos this is a very reasonable concept especially in situations when adjustment in aperture is not possible or not desired.

Or do you think the whole movie is wrong too for not using a single ultra fast, ultra low grain iso speed film and too lazy to adjust their aperture dials?
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lol
 
Shooter said:
The OP had his shoot at risk at due to.... operator error. (and the weird programming of the VFR function)
The operator was doing something with one of the many functions the wheel already does and hit the wrong function while doing so.
He screwed up , inadvertently, but it does show what can happen with multi function buttons / wheels.
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I was wondering when somebody was going to say this, and I agree completely (with no malice in my heart).
Kudos to the original poster for admitting his mistake . . . I had a similar experience once (which could have been recognized by playing back any of my multiple shots), due to a faulty battery in my wireless transmitter.
Glad he salvaged it--sorry he had the experience but the "bright side" if there is one is that he AND WE all profit from his experience here in this forum.

Would I like to see a better solution addressed through a future firmware upgrade? You betcha!
In the mean time, like my grandfather used to say, "it ain't the bow & arrow, it's the indians that make the difference."

Hang in there.
 
+1 to the iso wheel idea. Shooting verite with the 14-140 indoors (where, of course, I'm wide open on every shot), the exposure is ramping anytime I change focal length. It would be a huge help to be able to compensate for those incremental changes with the wheel.
 
Its clear that those who must use this camera in situations where a client or conditions disctate the pace, understand the improvement that could be made to this camera by having instant control over ISO at the ready.
 
I know Barry's in agreement with the importance of adding ISO functionality to the wheel or knob, and he's usually a good barometer of what's reasonable to request in terms of upgrades. Hoping Jan's lack of comment on the topic so far indicates that this is within the realm of possibility.
 
Check & doublecheck.
I always playback clips here & there.
I am surprised the cameraman did not
do some confidence playbacks in camera?
How could you do that much work and discover after
the fact you had no audio?
 
DrHST said:
Hoping Jan's lack of comment on the topic so far indicates that this is within the realm of possibility.
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You are not reading my lack of comment correctly. Somethings are burned into functional non-rewriteable areas. This may well be one of them. Asking for it, but not expecting a yes.

Best,

Jan
 
aschocken said:
+1 to the iso wheel idea. Shooting verite with the 14-140 indoors (where, of course, I'm wide open on every shot), the exposure is ramping anytime I change focal length. It would be a huge help to be able to compensate for those incremental changes with the wheel.
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Ah ha. This is what I dont get.
Why are you wide open (.."of course"). I have heard others say that and I hear them say they want to fine tune the ISO so they stay there (or any) aperture constantly.

What is the compelling reason to shoot at the same aperture? I guess the answer that will come back is "shallow DOF"

Story telling and image making use different DOFs shot to shot. (excellent recent example would be 'The Kings Speech')

It is not usually just one DOF on all shots and in fact that is difficult to achieve due to focal length of the lens and the point of focus ( subject proximity to the lens). Both vary the DOF in the shot . Using same aperture just does not do that in it self.


Lastly ...you are using a lens with a non constant aperture so thats a lens and a situation I would not use myself ( but thats just me).

Guys dont get me wrong. Messing with the ISO is fine but the need for instant access to it on a single wheel that already has 4+ functions seems a great way to get exactly the situation the O.P found themselves in. (operator error due to multi function switch overload).

This is a production camera and not a run and gun / event camera as often pointed out here.

Finally, was wondering if you think the whole movie industry is wrong for not using a single ultra slow, ultra low grain ISO speed film and too lazy to adjust their aperture dials as well?
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Absolutely not. The movie industry I am in , uses whatever ISO or a film stock to get the shot and and we ALWAYS use the aperture ring on the lenses combined with ND filters, shutter angle, fps and lighting control. Lazy...not at all.

Still asking... does anyone do a Black Balance (as recommended here and in the manual) when changing ISO on the AF100? If not why not?
 
Shooter said:
The movie industry I am in , uses whatever ISO or a film stock to get the shot and and we ALWAYS use the aperture ring on the lenses combined with ND filters, shutter angle, fps and lighting control. Lazy...not at all.

Still asking... does anyone do a Black Balance (as recommended here and in the manual) when changing ISO on the AF100? If not why not?
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The counter-argument to this perspective is that the technology we are working with is no longer anchored to the fixed-ISO film-stock restrictions of traditional filmmaking practice. From a digital image capture perspective, the ISO concept itself is arbitrary and obsolete. There is no "native ISO" in a digital image sensor, it is a photosensitive device whose output is inherently stepless and adjustable via straightforward video gain controls. In a well-engineered video camera, signal recording level should be seamlessly adjustable using a mechanism that is completely independent of color balance and dynamic range settings.
 
Shooter said:
Still asking... does anyone do a Black Balance (as recommended here and in the manual) when changing ISO on the AF100? If not why not?
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I do. Not sure if it is necessary. My feeling is probably not but I'll continue doing it until I am very sure. Until then it is easy and painless enough and worth the time it takes.
 
lpowell said:
There is no "native ISO" in a digital image sensor, it is a photosensitive device whose output is inherently stepless and adjustable via straightforward video gain controls. In a well-engineered video camera, signal recording level should be seamlessly adjustable using a mechanism that is completely independent of color balance and dynamic range settings.
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I was going to post the same thing. This would be really useful to ultra fine tune exposure. After all, many, the vast majority of lenses will have steps in their aperture rings. The kind of ISO control you're talking about would really enable one to really dial in exposure.
 
lpowell said:
The counter-argument to this perspective is that the technology we are working with is no longer anchored to the fixed-ISO film-stock restrictions of traditional filmmaking practice. From a digital image capture perspective, the ISO concept itself is arbitrary and obsolete. There is no "native ISO" in a digital image sensor, it is a photosensitive device whose output is inherently stepless and adjustable via straightforward video gain controls. In a well-engineered video camera, signal recording level should be seamlessly adjustable using a mechanism that is completely independent of color balance and dynamic range settings.
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I dont and I am not disagreeing with that at all. To me its like having a range of stocks in my camera and I intend to fully utilise the advantage of that.

I am just questioning the practice of using the ISO in the matter of setting an exposure.

In Steves case...he wanted to quickly access ISO ( quicker than throwing a switch) to fine tune his shot by one stop.
He did not wish to interfere with any thing on the lens for reasons of his own.. yet he would be willing to fiddle with the multi function wheel to find a precision ISO setting for exposure purposes (assumeably on the wfm) , set that and then also do a Black Balance.

Until then it is easy and painless enough and worth the time it takes.
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Others are wanting the ISO adjustment for exposure purposes as well...but they are wanting it for the speed. Assumeably they dont Black Balance between re sets.

Nothing is faster, lower risk and more convenient than the aperture ring for this purpose...IMHO.
 
Shooter said:
This is a production camera and not a run and gun / event camera as often pointed out here.
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Ugh, are we not done with this yet? What's often pointed out here is the fallacy that this camera has one main use, and everything else is off label. The truth is that doc people, feature people, commercial people, music vid shooters, and wedding & event shooters will all use and love this camera. We've already seen a Eidolon's great corp. spot over in the sub forum that featured man on the street handheld and run & gun broll. Vimeo has many more examples of run & gun footage using the camera. Even a doc DoP for the brilliant "Nature" series has bought it for use on docs.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...ideo-series-pilot-with-ag-af100-hd-cinema-cam


Would my old Eclair only shoot documentaries? What about my CP 16, was that a shorts only camera? It's a versatile camera, and if it's possible to add easier access the the iso's, it will be an even more versatile camera.
 
Agreed...this camera will be used by all types of shooters and already is being done so...very well in fact. ( heroic indie determination.. and thats cool...there aint no rules)

What I also read is the wailing, lamenting and gnashing of teeth regarding lack of function, form and equipment to faciltate those using it outside its general design scope and concept. eg, Servo zoom, AF lens, Auto Exposure, OIS, On/Off switch, EVF position and quality for shoulder shooting, LCD position, ISO wheel/ switch options, non constant apertures...

Absolutely none of those affect anyone using this camera as a production camera (a la RED or Alexa or film cameras)
 
There's feedback and then there's feedback. Whining about unrealistic features at this price point and misguided requests by those new to production for sure requires some patience, and some personal filtering. But requests for modifications and fixes such as those addressed with the first firmware update, and some of the ones you mention above, are a healthy thing. If you're a manufacturer, and your market base requests a feature you can implement that will widen the appeal of your product, don't you want to hear it and act on it if it's feasible? If you're a lens manufacturer, doesn't this help you gauge interest in products to develop? One great thing about this forum is the opportunity to contribute to the conversation that brings the AF from was initially scoped as to how it's tweaked after launch, when real users actually get their hands on it. If the price of that conversation is having to put up with some foolishness, I say it's worth it.
 
I'm not interested in having another function on that wheel - as it is It's locked and taped over so nothing gets overlooked.
 
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