VFR mode on the AF101 may have cost me my biggest client today!

I've gotten into the habit of playing back my first clip after I shoot it, just to be sure that there is audio. This audio issue has been in the back of my mind on each shoot I've done so far with this camera, and I don't want tot get burned. I did the firmware update and it worked. But as others said that is just a band-aid fix.

As for the ISO, isn't using the gain control enough?
 
D10S said:
As for the ISO, isn't using the gain control enough?
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Not really, because there are times when using the 14-140 especially, that 3200 is the only gain you can use. Walk into another room, and 2000 is more than enough, but you still have 3200 programmed in the high detent, and say 1200 in the mid detent, which is way too dark. So, dive into the menu you go, wasting time, while your shot walks away. If I could dial in the ISO I need in one of those detents, I could get precisely the ISO I need without adding too much noise, and wasting time awkwardly pushing buttons and knobs with one hand while the client looks at me like I'm an idiot. The same thing happens when using different primes of varying speed. If you want to use a wide aperture with different kinds of lenses, I find I'm often going into the menu to tweak the ISOs to get the aperture I want. Again, very time wasteful, while that wheel sits there, dangerously useless to me.

Jan, how about, in the menu for High Gain Switch position, make another option next to" 3200" that says "VARI". With that menu setting active, the wheel in the back goes to ISO, and controls all the Iso settings. Please? :-)
 
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D10S said:
I've gotten into the habit of playing back my first clip after I shoot it, just to be sure that there is audio. This audio issue has been in the back of my mind on each shoot I've done so far with this camera, and I don't want tot get burned. I did the firmware update and it worked. But as others said that is just a band-aid fix.

As for the ISO, isn't using the gain control enough?
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Great advice, i've mapped the user button by the record button to REC check, it quickly plays back the last few seconds of the last clip. Easy and quick way to double check that audio is present in the recording.

As for the gain control, i assume you mean the three position gain switch. For me it's not enough. When i want to stay at f2.8 for depth of field reasons, i need to have fine control of the iso to dial in the exposure. The last few days i was shooting Rory McIlroy during practice rounds at the Honda Classic PGA tournament. It was a partly cloudy day and the light was drastically changing every second. It was quite a dance to manage exposure with the ND wheel and ISO while trying to maintain a relatively shallow depth of field. ISO on the function knob would have helped a ton.
 
CraftyClown - I totally feel for you, I guess I was waiting for someone to post something like this and TBH every time I shoot I have a slight flutter of concern over the wheel and a possible accident. To appease myself heres what I do, make sure the dial select switch is in lock mode. And I do this every time I use the dial for anything. Using the dial for me means the last step of using the dial is changing the switch to lock mode. I also haver User 3 set to Rec chk. That means I just push it after each section / take and Ill hear recorded audio.
 
Steve Kahn said:
Agreed 100%!
The slash is a band-aid but please dear God Panasonic just turn the audio ON in VFR. How complicated could this be?
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I think that might be a no-go. The problem is that the way Panasonic cameras do the slow-mo breaks the time relationship between the audio and the video, because it changes the speed at which the video will be played back. So the audio wouldn't match in duration and the audio would finish in half the time of the video. Or if they changed the speed of the audio, it wouldn't match in pitch. And either of those things might be a complete no-go technically to manage to record in the formats available. Pitch shifting in camera is probably a no-go too as even in a proper audio package getting a factor of two slowdown and an octave pitch shift usually gives very echo-y sounding processed sound.

So I think the answer may be "insanely complicated and no obvious right way to do it" which is why they don't record audio in VFR. I'm used to using a separate sound recorder for VFR anyway. I always ran my two HVX200's with one off-speed recording the "proper" footage, and one at regular speed as a master wide shot with audio, so I could then choose to use the audio if I wanted it, and process it in whatever way seemed most useful in post. For instant things (a thrown punch, whip crack etc) one usually wants the real-speed sound but sliced up so the whip crack happens at the right time. For action taking place over slower timescales one usually wants slowed, pitch shifted sound- but maybe not the "50%/one octave" shift that naive physics says should be "correct" as it doesn't always feel right when you come to do it.

Actually for any shoot using VFR I'm planning on having a separate sound recorder still (probably an HVX on master wide still) so it isn't a big deal.

The big deal is the bars wrongly appearing so you don't spot VFR is on when you don't expect it to be, and that's what Panasonic really should fix properly in a future firmware update, even if they leave the audio pass-through to HDMI intact.

Cheers, Hywel.
 
Crafty- glad you smoothed things over with the client (my, you are crafty!).
Times like this, one must fall on the sword. And yes, see how you can make it even better, because you are well... crafty!
VFR almost got me once (pre-firmware), i should get into the habit of playback and locking, too.
 
+1 for the iso on the dial or function knob...I just had my first shoot with the af100 (using a red prime package and hot rod mount) and the ki pro mini...would have been handy to have more iso choices quickly, but it wasn't bad using aperture and ND wheel but keeping a constant f-stop in this situation would have been easier with more ISO choices although getting into the menu is pretty fast.

I also have been paranoid about the audio/vfr thing but I guess I'm used to the 170...

...errr, have I just cursed myself?

to the OP: that is a great client...hang on to 'em! And even though it may cost you it will probably pay down the road!

Bob
 
Sounds terrible. Really sorry. I'm glad your client was understanding enough. I'm sure you will knock it out with flying colors. When this kind of stuff happens I know and make sure it will never happen again.
 
Raster said:
Crafty, now's the time to get busy, pull this job outa the dumpster and think of things to give your client value added ingredients on the reshoot.

Don't wipe the silent footage, go over it with your cameraman and figure out how to make it better on the reshoot. You'll probably keep the client for life .. the name CC says it all mate.

Cheers.
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+26... this is a great opportunity to turn a lemon into a margarita.
 
Barry_Green said:
I agree it should be there. Or on the Function Knob. It's a new workflow for us old dogs, but it's a good one -- the ISO is soooo frickin' clean that it is a totally viable way to work with this camera, and having more accessibility to it would be welcome.
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+1, thanks for joining the choir asking for this Barry.

And more importantly, CC, I'm glad to hear you worked it out with the client. No one gets through life in production without moments like these, it's the mark of a pro who when you can turn them around. In the end, the client quite often stays loyal because you were straight with them and made it right.
 
Barry_Green said:
Now, I've changed my mind and think it would be a good use of the wheel, because after experimenting with the ISOs I think there's little to no noise difference, and little to no DR difference, from 200 to 800. And even 3200 is pretty clean. So I think changing ISO is a far more valid technique on this particular video camera, than it was on any of their prior cameras -- adding gain is pretty much a big verboten no-no in the world of video cameras.
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I thought that changing the ISO was the same as changing the gain. If that's not so, then what exactly happens to the video signal when you change ISO?
 
On a similar note of ways the cam can bit you is; if you turn on time lapse in the menu, after your done with your first shot, it turns itself off. I get why they did this (I dont get why the audio bars are active in VFR) but something to keep a eye on.
 
Yesterday on a shoot for my main client my cameraman accidentally put the camera into VFR mode after pressing in the shutter f/rate button by mistake!
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If I have seen any argument for a reason NOT to add any further function to this multi function wheel ( ie. ISO)...this could be one of the better ones!

Set it...check it...LOCK it.
 
Shooter said:
If I have seen any argument for a reason NOT to add any further function to this multi function wheel ( ie. ISO)...this could be one of the better ones!

Set it...check it...LOCK it.
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Well ISO is not going to cost you a shoot, would be clearly displayed in on-screen graphics, and its effect on the video is clearly evident in exposure and aperture. So I disagree.
 
bhdfield said:
Well ISO is not going to cost you a shoot, would be clearly displayed in on-screen graphics, and its effect on the video is clearly evident in exposure and aperture. So I disagree.
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The OP had his shoot at risk at due to.... operator error. (and the weird programming of the VFR function)
The operator was doing something with one of the many functions the wheel already does and hit the wrong function while doing so.
He screwed up , inadvertently, but it does show what can happen with multi function buttons / wheels.
 
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