I will be doing exactly that sometime this week (once the local weather clears up a bit).
GH4 Very Disappointed
- Thread starter Jim Simon
- Start date
I will be doing exactly that sometime this week (once the local weather clears up a bit).
Post 9.
Same here.
So? How does it compare to clips you're shooting? Is there something wrong with my camera, or are my IQ standards just higher than average?
Thanks you.
I have to say, though, this clip kind of supports explanation number 3 for my disappointment.
I think your IQ standards are just fine, it's just that 1080 modes on the GH4 really aren't very good. Same reason the GH3 wasn't a very good cam. I always liked my G6 image better than the 1080 on the GH3 from the samples I saw.
I know these are not an apples to apples comparison exactly, but it will give you an idea of how 1080-60p 100mbps vs. 4K UHD 30p compare when viewed at 1080.
You can download the originals and the difference is so drastic that even if you have to convert the 4K to 1080 to give to the customer, it would be worth it.
Even though the exposure is slightly different and 1080-60p is not as good as 1080-24p, these two still show why you are not happy with your images.
https://vimeo.com/179086265 1080-60p
https://vimeo.com/179086263 4K UHD 30p
By the way I also shoot cineV with 16-235 if the exif info is stripped.
Cheers,
Pete
I know these are not an apples to apples comparison exactly, but it will give you an idea of how 1080-60p 100mbps vs. 4K UHD 30p compare when viewed at 1080.
You can download the originals and the difference is so drastic that even if you have to convert the 4K to 1080 to give to the customer, it would be worth it.
Even though the exposure is slightly different and 1080-60p is not as good as 1080-24p, these two still show why you are not happy with your images.
https://vimeo.com/179086265 1080-60p
https://vimeo.com/179086263 4K UHD 30p
By the way I also shoot cineV with 16-235 if the exif info is stripped.
Cheers,
Pete
visceralpsyche
Well-known member
Here's my cinematography reel, with about 40% shot with the GH4. If you can't reliably pick out which shots are which (the rest are various Red cameras), then I'd say the camera is more than good enough for big productions 
HTH!
Cheers,
Paul
HTH!
Cheers,
Paul
Thanks for playing, Paul. But like I said, I'm looking to download original clips here and do some pixel peeping. Plenty of YouTube and Vimeo clips were used to make my purchase decision, but I'm not happy with the results I'm getting.
Now if you'd like to upload some of the original clips used in that reel, let me see for myself up close what you find "good enough", that would be very helpful.
Now if you'd like to upload some of the original clips used in that reel, let me see for myself up close what you find "good enough", that would be very helpful.
Mark Williams
Veteran
Since you are not satisfied with the GH4 and time is money why not just move on to another camera. I have had to do that before and am glad that I did.
visceralpsyche
Well-known member
I'll do you one better
Reset your camera, then set it exactly as per my recommended settings for the GH4 in Cine-D mode:
http://www.leeminglutone.com/downloads/Leeming_LUT_One_Panasonic_GH4_G7_CineD_Setup.pdf
Ignore the LUT aspect of the settings - that can come later.
Set up the camera, then shoot ETTR as per this tutorial to make sure your highlights are not clipped, and your dynamic range potential maximised. White balance before you shoot.
Now take the resulting images into your post pipeline and play around. Those settings are pretty much the best you will get out of the camera (my LUT is designed to fix the colours of Cine-D to perfect them, but it's not really the thing I think you are having issues with right now). If that doesn't do it for you, then you will have to look into other cameras. But I've looked around too, and there's a reason I'm still with the GH4
I'm quietly hoping for Sony's rumoured A9 series to give me full sensor DCI 4K at 10 bit, even if it's only externally. THAT will be what pushes me away from the GH4 (with Metabones adapter - if you aren't using that, then that should be your first item to add before considering new cameras, as it will completely change your perception of the GH4 if you aren't already using one).Look forward to hearing what you think
Cheers,
Paul
Thomas Smet
Veteran
Why are you pixel peeping? Just about any camera on the planet will have questionable artifacts when pixel peeping. The reality is nobody watches video that way and you will only drive yourself mad by trying to look at the video that way.
The GH4 does not shoot raw. While the H264 recording on the GH4 is darn impressive considering how much it squashes the file size it is never going to be perfect if you pixel peep. Keep in mind a lot of Hollywood movies are shot 4k but edited and do all their effects at 2k so this is a very valid workflow. Part of that is done because of cost but it is also a way to eliminate the inefficiencies of a single bayer sensor.
While some horribly inaccurate videos and articles online claim there is little to no quality difference from recording externally that is simply not true at all and based on the opinions of those who are not used to seeing that level of quality difference or if they do see it they are not bothered by it. To me it is more like shooting photos in jpeg vs raw. Sure they are both good photos and from the same sensor but one can be graded a lot better and has cleaner details and less artifacts. ProRes422 HQ is 8x larger than the 4k 100mbps mode on the GH4. So if you want to look at that ratio then yes it is darn impressive but you don't cut the size down to 1/8 the size without sacrificing something. Visually it does a great job to only eliminate what most people don't see with the naked eye at normal viewing but 7/8 of that data compared to ProRes is gone forever.
I may do just that. The thread is an attempt to determine if I really need to, or if there's a simpler solution.
Because the GH2 with Moon Trial 7 did not. That is the level of quality I'm accustomed to, and am not achieving on the GH4.
I'm not a fan of histograms. For one, having it on screen always gets in the way of the content. I also find it far less useful a tool than the waveform monitor, as it doesn't represent what's actually on screen. I also feel it's just not a good tool for setting exposure. It's entirely possible for your "Underexposed" graph to represent a proper exposure, depending on the content of the scene. And finally, if I were to overexpose on Cine D, I'd definitely get clipped highlights in many if not most of my shots. (This is purely run and gun shooting here, with no control over lighting and no chance for retakes.)
I did get a chance to use your V-Log LUT on some recently shot outdoor test footage. Definitely the best I've seen so far - on that footage. Unfortunately, there were other clips from another day that just didn't hold up, even when overexposed by 1 stop. Here's an example.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/106505510/P1030411.MP4
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I question that. Apple claims only 220 Mb/s at 60 fps. The BMPCC uses even less for 24 fps.
Barry_Green
Moderator
That's for HD, not 4K. At 4K it's 880 mbps.
GH2 has weak and old sensor. It has poor dynamic range compared to GH4. It has much more noise in high iso, it has aliasing at 24P. It has blurred dark tones.
GH4 4k is from different planet compared to hacked GH2.
DPStewart
Veteran
I disagree with most of this.
The GH4 is two generations newer that the GH2 so it SHOULD be significantly better, but I found it only marginally better than my GH2's running MOON T7.
The GH4 does have better DR, but not by a lot, only by a little. Certainly not compared to my Blackmagic cameras.
The internal 1080p is not worth moving from MOON T7.
The 4k scaled down does show more detail, but I really didn't find it to be THAT much better an overall image than MOON T7.
The Samsung NX1 delivers a more appealing image and outperforms in almost every way over the GH4. Too bad it's now a dead system. But that means nothing if you shoot manual lenses of course.
Different cameras will give you different looks so WHAT you're intending to create makes a difference.
For me, the jump from GH2's and MOON T7 over to Blackmagic's 12-bit RAW was nothing short of ASTOUNDING. Compared to those, the GH4 is nearly identical to MOON T7.
Jim, I'm sure you've seen plenty of BMPCC footage, but here's something I rattled off last year just to test the functioning of a used BMPCC I had just bought. NO color correction was done to this and NO color grading was done either.
https://vimeo.com/149123448
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