Varicam pricing

S

steve phillipps

Veteran
Struggling to find out whether or not that price includes viewfinder - kind of assume it doesn't but on the other hand can't find it listed separately?
Steve
 
I'm assuming also that the recording module unit contains a whole load of processing and also any SDI outputs the camera might have - in other words you won't just be able to buy one of the head for £13-18,000 and use an Odyssey 7Q or something - anyone know for sure?
Steve
 
Although as predicted, and demonstrated by the lack of replies (compared to the 68 pages and counting on the FS7!), nobody really cares much!
Steve
 
I think nobody here "cares" simply because the overwhelming number of users on this site are owner-operators. And when you're talking about $20K and above cameras, it's much more the rental houses and larger production companies that will be buyers for this.

But I'll gladly rent one, if it does what I need and is right for a client's project.
 
Stephen Mick said:
I think nobody here "cares" simply because the overwhelming number of users on this site are owner-operators. And when you're talking about $20K and above cameras, it's much more the rental houses and larger production companies that will be buyers for this.

But I'll gladly rent one, if it does what I need and is right for a client's project.
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No, I think nobody cares on this forum because the overwhelming majority of users are not in the network/broadcast/high-end side of the industry(with the rates that justify it). And a LOT of people on here are just guys that are "making movies" with their friends on DSLR's and aren't necessarily making a living shooting, at least not yet(I am NOT saying anything negative towards their talent/skills). Owner-op doesn't have anything to do with it. $20K-$50K-$100K cameras, at least on the Net/broadcast freelance side has just been a fact of life. These cameras aren't for everyone. Buy the right tools that you need to do your job, whether it's a $1K DSLR or an $80K+ Alexa.

Just looking at the HS(2/3") package, it's about the same list as the 2700 was at release. The 2700 was $39.9K list PLUS VF($4.5K). The HS package list is $46K for the head, deck, shoulder mount and VF($7K). BUT, I was hoping for lower pricing, as well. It may end up like the P2 version and they will offer deals eventually. You could pick-up a 2700 for $19.9K new in 2011. Of course, most people are interested in the s35 version and who knows if they will offer deals on that. We'll see what kind of cameras they really are when the production models hit the streets shortly.
 
steve phillipps said:
And scary that you can buy a 2700 or 3700 second hand for £3,000 these days!
Steve
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YES! That's about a quarter of the new price when Panny was offering the trade in deal of $20K. Unfortunately broadcast gear just doesn't retain it's value these days. I almost bought a Fuji 23x7.6 that was on eBay(I know the guy and he has quality stuff) for less that $12K. That's insane. It's about a $30K lens. It's great if you're looking to buy, though.
 
Beautiful lens, crazy low price. I think that may be about what I paid($2500) for a pro grade 20x SD zoom 10-12 years ago… At that price, I wish had need of a 2/3" HD cine zoom right now.
 
Stephen Mick said:
I think nobody here "cares" simply because the overwhelming number of users on this site are owner-operators. And when you're talking about $20K and above cameras, it's much more the rental houses and larger production companies that will be buyers for this.
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I know quite a few people who own cameras in that price range - it just depends on what work you do. And when the Varicam was first mooted they cared very much. But the predominant alternatives must be the Sony F5 and F55, and the question that has been asked countless times is will the Varicam either be better/cheaper than those? Will it offer better value for money?

And the answer that countless people have come to is "no". It's dearer than an F55 and not as good in certain key ways. When the price became clear, that's when people stopped caring about it - it's way overpriced for what it is.
 
At this price you can only assume that they see their rival as the F65 rather than F55 - which kind of makes sense as the original Varicam was an alternative to the highest level Sony of the day, the F900 (I seem to recall). And it certainly stacks up to the F65 I would think - 120fps and perhaps the new Ultra codec is something special? But it's certainly true that a lot people lost what interest they may have had in the F65 once the F5 and F55 were released and did a lot of what the F65 did for a fraction of the cost and size.
Steve
 
steve phillipps said:
At this price you can only assume that they see their rival as the F65 rather than F55 - ....... And it certainly stacks up to the F65 I would think - 120fps and perhaps the new Ultra codec is something special?
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Sorry, but I really don't think that's true. In many significant ways the Varicam is nowhere near a match to the F65, and for just two examples of why, the F65 is global shutter and "true" 4k resolution - the Varicam is rolling shutter and a 4k chip. (Hence - like the F5/55 and many other "4k" cameras - much less than "true" 4k after deBayering.)

The Ultra codec is good - but strip away all the marketing and there is little difference between it and XAVC. Same underlying technology, and if anything XAVC should be slightly better as it can take advantage of a few extra coding efficiency tricks. (Practically, you're unlikely to be able to tell them apart.)

As far as framerates go, then it remains to be seen whether the Varicam keeps full resolution in the 120fps mode. The only way to tell will be proper chart results, but lowering resolution to get higher framerates is far commoner than many realise, and that's true of all manufacturers. (As example, have you seen Adam Wilts look at the FS7? http://www.dvinfo.net/article/acqui...s7-l-s-s-shoulder-mount-camcorder-part-1.html Scroll down to the charts, and spot the difference between the normal frame rate 24/60fps chart, and that for 72-180fps......)

And then there is the matter of RAW usage. That's far more likely to be the case in a high end cinema production - where the F65 is really targeted - and even with the F55, users like the BBC NHU are using such in 4k RAW mode. And the Varicam just does not have as good a RAW implementation as those cameras.

The only indisputable area the Varicam DOES rival the F65 is in price! But in no way should anybody think they're getting that sort of quality/spec/features, good though the Varicam may be.
 
Yeah, all good points - I didn't say it should be compared with it, only that it must be what Panasonic is aiming it at. Having said all that the BBC NHU and some other wildlife outfits are indeed extremely interested in it, as they have been with the Amira.
Steve
 
For what it's worth, here's the official press release from Panasonic USA for the VariCam 35 and VariCam HS, including pricing, features, packaging details, and shipping availability:

NEWARK, NJ (October 15, 2014) – Panasonic today announced the immediate availability of its highly-anticipated VariCam models, the VariCam 35 and VariCam HS.

The VariCam 35’s superb image handling in multiple formats ranging from pristine 4K RAW to more practical 4K, UHD, 2K, HD and ProRes capture formats make it an unparalleled tool for high-end filmmaking, commercials and episodic production as well as live 4K events. With high-speed 1080p image capture of up to 240fps, the companion 2/3” VariCam HS produces extraordinary high-definition imagery for the most demanding documentary, sports or SFX slow-motion applications.

The VariCam 35 and VariCam HS will both offer Apple ProRes 4444 and ProRes 422 HQ* support for HD recording, positioning the new camera/recorders within a well-established and widely accepted HD workflow.** Both VariCams include Panasonic’s AVC-ULTRA family of advanced video codecs.

The VariCam 35 and VariCam HS incorporate an innovative design whereby the 4K and 2/3” camera heads are separate from but dockable to the common, shared recording module, enabling professionals to switch between s35mm and 2/3” camera heads to best suit their creative needs. This system flexibility can be expanded with an umbilical cable between the s35mm 4K camera and the AVC-ULTRA recorder, providing “box” camera functionality for jibs, cranes and other remote camera needs.

Both models feature a removable control panel to facilitate real-time control and easy menu access when the camera is in a fixed or remote position. They offer a production-tough aluminum alloy body to assure durability and reliability in the most challenging shooting locations.

The VariCam 35 utilizes a new Panasonic super 35mm MOS sensor for 4096 x 2160 (17:9) 4K image capture; this imager when combined with the AVC-ULTRA codecs for 4K enables very manageable and practical 4K production file sizes. The new imager boasts an impressive 14+ stops of latitude, and faithfully captures high-contrast, wide dynamic range imagery without compromise.

Through a strategic product development alliance with Codex Digital, Panasonic will deliver a high-speed 4K uncompressed RAW recorder for the VariCam 35 camera.*** This dedicated recorder will capture uncompressed 4K VariCam RAW (V-RAW) at up to 120fps, bolstering the VariCam 35’s suitability for high-end cinema applications.

Powerful color management capabilities provide a much extended color gamut for impeccable image fidelity, and permit support for an Academy Color Encoding System (ACES) workflow for full fidelity mastering of original source material. The VariCam 35 also affords in-camera color grading.




To maximize the dynamic range of the recorded images, Panasonic has developed a new log curve (V-Log) which elegantly maps the 14+ stops of image data to the recorded file. The VariCam 35 permits the assignment of various LUTs to individual recording channels and camera outputs. For example, shoot UHD and record non-destructively with the V-Log LUT, but assign a ”baked-in” 709 LUT on the HD / proxy recording for a real-time normal contrast look for editing and pre-grading. The camera’s monitor, EVF and EVF outputs have similar selectable LUT capabilities. The VariCam 35's In Camera Grading feature is fully flexible, with the camera able to record an ungraded 4K master (with associated metadata grading information) and graded (baked in) HD image simultaneously.

Among the camera/recorder’s top-level production features are real-time, high frame rate, variable speed 4K recording up to 120fps, and advanced workflows with parallel, simultaneous 4K/ UHD, reference 2K/HD and proxy recordings for in-camera on-set color grading and monitoring / editing ease. The camera also features a newly-developed OLED electronic viewfinder (EVF) with optical zoom functionality. 24-bit LPCM audio is added for in-camera audio master recording.

The VariCam 35 delivers an unprecedented breadth of recording formats, including 4K and UHD in AVC-ULTRA 4K, and 2K and 1080p HD in AVC-Intra 100/200**** and ProRes. Addressing the need for high-speed file exchange, the camera encodes a high-resolution 3.5Mbs proxy in parallel with 4K and 2K production formats, enabling fast, efficient offline editing. Metadata management will also be available and any metadata is written to all recording formats to enable easy match-back to high resolution or 4K master files.

Professional interfaces include: 3G-HD-SDI x4 for 4K QUAD output; an HD-SDI out for monitoring (down-converting from 4K); a dedicated VF HD-SDI output complete with all of the EVF status and display data; and two XLR inputs to record four channels of 24-bit, 48KHz audio. The VariCam 35 features a standard 35mm PL mount.

The VariCam 35 uses Panasonic’s new expressP2 card for high frame rate and 4K recording. The camera is equipped with a total of four memory card slots, two for expressP2 cards and two for microP2 cards. The new 256Gbyte expressP2 card can record up to 90 minutes of 4K/4:2:2 content. The microP2 card is designed for recording HD or 2K at more typical production frame rates.

VariCam HS Offers 12-bit 4:4:4 AVC-ULTRA Acquisition for Field Mastering and Archiving, Efficient 4:2:2 10-Bit Recording for Documentaries and Sports

The VariCam HS utilizes three newly-developed, 1920 x 1080p MOS imagers with 14 stops of latitude, providing full control over a wide range of lighting conditions for unparalleled 1080p native recording/operation. The camera/recorder incorporates a classical RGB imager/prism system that provides equi-band full resolution color processing for critical applications.

Among the camcorder’s key features are real-time high frame rate and off-speed recording to 240fps in 1080p (using AVC-Intra Class100), plus the ability to ramp / change frame rates during record. To complement the impressive video quality, the new VariCam HS offers 24-bit LPCM audio capabilities. Powerful yet creative image controls such as matrix, detail, gammas and a new Log recording capability allow ultra precise, powerful creative control over image parameters.

The VariCam HS features a range of high-quality recording formats including AVC-Intra Class100 (recording as 1080/24p, 25, 30p, 50 or 60p with VFR up to 240p), AVC-Intra Class200 (up to 30p/60i) and 12 bit sampled AVC-Intra Class4:4:4 (up to 30p). Both AVC-Intra Class200 and AVC-Intra Class4:4:4 deliver spectacular performance in applications where image quality is the utmost consideration.

The VariCam HS is equipped with V-Log in addition to FilmRec and Dynamic Range Stretch (DRS) image contrast management controls. The VariCam HS features Panasonic’s Emmy® Award-winning Chromatic Aberration Compensation (CAC) technology to minimize lateral chromatic aberrations and dramatically improve the Modulation Transfer Function (MTF) of the optical system. The VariCam HS also affords in-camera color grading.

The VariCam HS encodes a high-resolution 3.5Mbs proxy file in parallel with higher bandwidth production formats, enabling fast, efficient offline editing. Professional interfaces include: RGB4:4:4; a 3G-HD-SDI out to support 1080/60p; an HD-SDI out for monitoring; and two XLR inputs to record four channels of 24-bit, 48KHz audio. The camera’s 2/3” B4 lens mount enables use of a remarkable variety of prime lenses and servo zooms, lensing possibilities simply not available on larger formats.

The VariCam HS also uses Panasonic’s new expressP2 card for high frame rate recording (frame rates above 60fps). The new 256Gbyte expressP2 card can record about 32 minutes of 240p 1080 HD video.

The VariCam 35 has a suggested list price of $55,000; the VariCam HS has a suggested list price of $46,000. Both prices include the AU-V35C1G s35mm 4k or AU-V23HS1G 2/3" 1080p camera head, plus the AU-VREC1G common recorder, AU-VCVF1G OLED viewfinder, and the AU-VSHL1G shoulder pad/tripod mount.

For more information about the VariCam 35, VariCam HS and other Panasonic professional video products, visit www.us.panasonic.com/varicam or contact Panasonic at 877-803-8492.

Panasonic Solutions for Business
Panasonic delivers reliable business technology solutions that connect data with decision makers to drive better outcomes—for our customers and our customers’ customers. Panasonic engineers reliable products and solutions that help to create, capture and deliver data of all types, where, when and how it is needed. The complete suite of Panasonic professional solutions for government and commercial enterprises of all sizes addresses unified business communications, mobile computing, security and surveillance, retail point-of-sale, office productivity, visual communications (projectors, displays, digital signage) and HD video production. Panasonic solutions for business are delivered by Panasonic System Communications Company of North America, Division of Panasonic Corporation of North America, the principal North American subsidiary of Panasonic Corporation.

All brand and company/product names are trademarks or registered trademarks of the respective companies. All specifications are subject to change without notice. Information on Panasonic
solutions for business can be obtained by calling 877-803-8492 or at us.panasonic.com/business-solutions.

About Panasonic Corporation of North America
Panasonic Corporation of North America provides a broad line of digital and other electronics products and solutions for consumer, business and industrial use. The company is the principal North American subsidiary of Osaka, Japan-based Panasonic Corporation and the hub of
Panasonic’s U.S. branding, marketing, sales, service and R&D operations. In Interbrand’s 2014 annual “Best Global Green Brands” report, Panasonic ranked number five overall and the top electronics brand in the report. As part of continuing sustainability efforts, Panasonic Corporation of North America relocated its headquarters to a new facility, built to meet LEED certification standards, adjacent to Newark Penn Station in Newark, NJ. Learn more about Panasonic at www.panasonic.com.
* The Apple ProRes format is licensed from Apple Inc.
** ProRes support will be available in December 2014 through a free firmware upgrade.
*** The Codex Digital RAW recorder will be available in December 2014.

**** AVC-Intra200 is available only for FHD recording.
 
harddrive said:
the Varicam is rolling shutter and a 4k chip. (Hence - like the F5/55 and many other "4k" cameras - much less than "true" 4k after deBayering.)
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Had a play with the Varicams the other day. I asked about resolution and he told me that the chip has a surplus of photosites so that after debayer it gives exactly 4k resolution, not 3.5, not 3.7 but 4k. How, I don't know, but that what he told me when I asked that specific question.
They're nice cameras for sure, but not sure about the swappable front end idea now - problem is you'd need 2 separate sets of lenses as 1 camera is 3 chip and the other 1 single.
Steve
 
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