Varicam HS or LT for wildlife and sports productions

L

lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com

Well-known member
I would like to confirm that the Varicam HS can simultaneously record regular 1080-29.97pN on the sub recorder and 1080-240 fps on the main rec. I do lots of wildlife and action shooting. This is very useful because it's like having 2 cameras in 1 That's a huge weight saving when shooting in remote wilderness locations. Don't have to bring 2 people or 2 cam bodies. Just one and that's it. Panasonic is not advertising it in their brochure and I have to dig up to know about it.

LT can't do 2 separate concurrent frame rates recording but offers higher resolution.
For my market, I rather have super sharp 1080p than compromised 4K with too much optical processing adaptors. Quality 4K super telephoto lens exceed 20 lbs and costs over $100K. No thank you. It still doesn't have the reach, flexibility and most importantly an optical stabilizer as found on B4 2/3" HD.

I use 2/3" HD lens super telephoto lens extensively and do not like for the optical path to be processed. Even putting an optical stabilizer impairs the image just a tad. That's how critical it is. If uncompromised optical quality is desired, then the HS is a good choice right?
 
That's a mind bender. The frame rate is set at the sensor. How would the camera record at two different frame rates?

When shooting at 240p, the camera can output a "regular" broadcast frame rate so that one can monitor the image. But this is a monitoring output, and it simply drops frames as appropriate.
 
I would have to go back and re-read some of the lit and reviews, but I thought I read that on the "big" VariCams(not LT) that you could shoot high-speed AND a regular speed proxy WITH sound. It's always kind of amazed me that most cameras can not, or more precisely, do not record audio when shooting high frame rate(well, our tape Vari's, but the slo-mo was done in post and the tape was always running at 60 regardless of "shooting frame rate"). I mean hell, my iPhone 6 and 7 both record audio at 240. This would be a big help, at times. Not having to decide between shooting real time, because you need "sync-sound" or HFR and you could just shoot HFR and if you needed something in real times with audio, you could pull it out in post.
 
Well color this Cinema Product Manager both surprised and impressed! Having gone into this deeper with our engineering team, it turns out that yes, we actually can do this.

The VariCam HS can record up to 240p in the main recording. At the same time the sub-recording (proxy) can record at normal video frame rates, based upon whatever the time base is set to (23.98, 25, 29.97, 50, 59.94). And that sub-recording will have audio recorded. Note that a new feature is the possibility of recording both the main and sub recordings in variable frame rate up to 60p, in which case there is no audio recorded (I know that's a confusing one and likely not to be used too often).

So the answer to the original question is YES, the VariCam HS can capture 1080p240 as the main recording while simultaneously capturing 1080p29.97 with audio as the sub-recording. Pretty powerful stuff.
 
Ah good. This cam will be on my to purchase list this year. In the long run with dual frame rates recording capability, it'll save days of field location. I don't have to shoot twice with regular frame rate and 240 fps. All can be done in a single cam and shooting session.
 
lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com said:
Ah good. This cam will be on my to purchase list this year. In the long run with dual frame rates recording capability, it'll save days of field location. I don't have to shoot twice with regular frame rate and 240 fps. All can be done in a single cam and shooting session.
Click to expand...

In the Varicam LT it records the "normal" frame rate in proxy (if you're shooting HFR at the same time). The proxy codec on the LT is not the same codec (or quality) as the one recorded to the main card. I don't know how this works on the Varicam HS but you should make sure that this isn't the case with the HS, if you want to use that footage in the final production. It works great for editing, but it's probably not something you can broadcast.

Mitch Gross said:
Well color this Cinema Product Manager both surprised and impressed! Having gone into this deeper with our engineering team, it turns out that yes, we actually can do this.

The VariCam HS can record up to 240p in the main recording. At the same time the sub-recording (proxy) can record at normal video frame rates, based upon whatever the time base is set to (23.98, 25, 29.97, 50, 59.94). And that sub-recording will have audio recorded. Note that a new feature is the possibility of recording both the main and sub recordings in variable frame rate up to 60p, in which case there is no audio recorded (I know that's a confusing one and likely not to be used too often).

So the answer to the original question is YES, the VariCam HS can capture 1080p240 as the main recording while simultaneously capturing 1080p29.97 with audio as the sub-recording. Pretty powerful stuff.
Click to expand...

Mitch, I mentioned this recently to Luc Bara at a Panasonic event here in Sweden, but I'll do it to you too. Hopefully this can be implemented in future firmware:
When the Varicam LT is set to record in AVC-Intra4K422 it records audio as usual but when it's set to AVC-Intra4K-LT it only records audio to the proxy card. I think that it would be good (in any setting) that even if the camera is in VFR-mode, that it records audio to the main card if the frame rate is set to the same as the base requency. Since some think that the boot up time is long, this might be a sollution for those who want to shoot in normal frame rates, but quickly be able to change to higher frame rates without rebooting the camera and also help them skip the hustle of using the audio from the proxy card and "sync" it to the original footage (although it should be in sync already, but it is an extra step).

Another thing regarding VFR-mode, which at least I would appreciate, is if there was an option to make the shutter speed/angle different depending on which mode you shoot in.
Let's say you're shooting something in normal mode (25 fps, shutter 1/50) and then you change to VFR-mode (100 fps), the camera will automatically set the shutter to 1/120. If you then disable the VFR-mode, the shutter will still be set to 1/120, even though you most likely don't want to use that shutter setting. I think that it would be a nice feature if the camera could remember the setting from when it isn't in VFR-mode, but that this should be an option to set in the menu, in case someone prefers to have the same shutter setting regardless of the frame rate. It's not a big deal, but it would save some time.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Pretty powerful stuff.
Click to expand...

Multis speed recording. Out of interest how is shutter angle/exposure managed?

I guess you can drop frames (wrong shutter angle), stack frames (like sony timelapse mode..correct motion blur but maybe odd) or dual record magically (but that would need Two ISOs and/or shutter speeds at the same time).. what occurs?
 
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Milan O. said:
In the Varicam LT it records the "normal" frame rate in proxy (if you're shooting HFR at the same time). The proxy codec on the LT is not the same codec (or quality) as the one recorded to the main card. I don't know how this works on the Varicam HS but you should make sure that this isn't the case with the HS, if you want to use that footage in the final production. It works great for editing, but it's probably not something you can broadcast.



Mitch, I mentioned this recently to Luc Bara at a Panasonic event here in Sweden, but I'll do it to you too. Hopefully this can be implemented in future firmware:
When the Varicam LT is set to record in AVC-Intra4K422 it records audio as usual but when it's set to AVC-Intra4K-LT it only records audio to the proxy card. I think that it would be good (in any setting) that even if the camera is in VFR-mode, that it records audio to the main card if the frame rate is set to the same as the base requency. Since some think that the boot up time is long, this might be a sollution for those who want to shoot in normal frame rates, but quickly be able to change to higher frame rates without rebooting the camera and also help them skip the hustle of using the audio from the proxy card and "sync" it to the original footage (although it should be in sync already, but it is an extra step).

Another thing regarding VFR-mode, which at least I would appreciate, is if there was an option to make the shutter speed/angle different depending on which mode you shoot in.
Let's say you're shooting something in normal mode (25 fps, shutter 1/50) and then you change to VFR-mode (100 fps), the camera will automatically set the shutter to 1/120. If you then disable the VFR-mode, the shutter will still be set to 1/120, even though you most likely don't want to use that shutter setting. I think that it would be a nice feature if the camera could remember the setting from when it isn't in VFR-mode, but that this should be an option to set in the menu, in case someone prefers to have the same shutter setting regardless of the frame rate. It's not a big deal, but it would save some time.
Click to expand...
On the first request, I know the issue is that VFR is designed as something that you can change mid-shot. It's not just off speed but in fact actually variable. So that's why no audio is recorded. I do understand where you're coming from, but to add the option of sound could lead to more confusion where there already is a lot anyway.

I feel your pain with the shutter, and it has been mentioned. I will note it and we'll see where we can go. I know that this is an issue with some other manufacturers' cameras as well. I don't know if this is possible in the camera's architecture.
 
morgan_moore said:
Multis speed recording. Out of interest how is shutter angle/exposure managed?

I guess you can drop frames (wrong shutter angle), stack frames (like sony timelapse mode..correct motion blur but maybe odd) or dual record magically (but that would need Two ISOs and/or shutter speeds at the same time).. what occurs?
Click to expand...

There's no magic alchemy here. The sensor is only running at one speed as is the shutter. So all that happens is frames are dropped, creating the effect of a shorter shutter.
 
Mitch Gross said:
On the first request, I know the issue is that VFR is designed as something that you can change mid-shot. It's not just off speed but in fact actually variable. So that's why no audio is recorded. I do understand where you're coming from, but to add the option of sound could lead to more confusion where there already is a lot anyway.

I feel your pain with the shutter, and it has been mentioned. I will note it and we'll see where we can go. I know that this is an issue with some other manufacturers' cameras as well. I don't know if this is possible in the camera's architecture.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mitch!

Regarding the audio in AVC-Intra4K-LT mode, maybe confusion can be avoided if VFR can be turned on and off in that codec too? So that it records audio to the main card when VFR is off, but acts like it already does now when VFR is on. I think this feature would be appreciated. For me it's not a big deal but for those who complain about the reboot time it might be helpful. I don't know if it's possible or how much time/money such a feature would cost to implement, but if it's easy to do, it might be worth it.
 
Mitch Gross said:
There's no magic alchemy here. The sensor is only running at one speed as is the shutter. So all that happens is frames are dropped, creating the effect of a shorter shutter.
Click to expand...

It would be worth considering the user slowing the footage in post maybe using some sort of optical flow.

Ideal workflow.

Edit from the real speed proxies.

Master, got, 50% of frames dropped, other 50% merged with OF

Sound retained.
 
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