F5: V6 brings 12-bit 444 and 3D LUTs for slog2/sgamut

starcentral

starcentral

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From the CineAlta Magazine issue #5 released on Thursday, just a few quick comments from Sony on what's arriving for version 6 in June.

Here's a link to the Magazine:
http://community.sony.com/t5/F5-F55/Issue-5-of-CineAlta-magazine/m-p/498805/highlight/false#M27367

When they say they've received lots of requests to implement 3D LUTs for slog/sgamut I'm assuming they mean "custom mode". That's quite interesting.

Also in the magazine; Katey Perry's concert in 4K to The Wonder List shot by Phillip Bloom for CNN's docu-series, the latest edition of CineAlta magazine is packed with over 160 pages of detailed articles!
 
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My favorite shooting mode is SStP (SR codec), RGB 4444 10 bit. AFAIK, this is absolutely pristine footage, altho' limited to 1080P.
 
Dennis,

they don't mention LUTs in Custom mode - that would be a bit weird and have some consequences in terms of processing and real time consistency. What they seem to be suggesting is that S-Log2/S-Gamut will become a full partner in terms of Custom 3D LUTs in CineEI, the way that S-Log3/S-Gamut3(.cine) is now:
We received many requests to implement user 3D LUTs for S-Log2/S-Gamut, as a result this is now being implemented.
Click to expand...

I could be mistaken, but that just sound like S-Log2 gets user LUT parity with S-Log3. That's sensible and I think a good thing - LUTs in custom mode would be a rather less justifiable kludge of workflows and metadata and arguably something of a waste of firmware's finite resources; there are other more generally useful things which would be worth persuing first, even if it's mundane stuff like faster menu responses, greater consistency in LUT application (S&Q, playback) or things which the FS7 are popularising such as Long-GOP XAVC-L.

The cameras work really well but they coul do with a bit of polish, and I really hope that version 6 brings that, rather than just a few brochure features. It's a little ominous that this is the first version that hasn't had any kind of roadmap. Maybe more detail during NAB?

Ben
 
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+1, Ben
(altho', as an F5 owner/user, I'm not very concerned with slog2/sgamut.)
cameramanben said:
Dennis,

they don't mention LUTs in Custom mode - that would be a bit weird and have some consequences in terms of processing and real time consistency. What they seem to be suggesting is that S-Log2/S-Gamut will become a full partner in terms of Custom 3D LUTs in CineEI, the way that S-Log3/S-Gamut3(.cine) is now:


I could be mistaken, but that just sound like S-Log2 gets user LUT parity with S-Log3. That's sensible and I think a good thing - LUTs in custom mode would be a rather less justifiable kludge of workflows and metadata and arguably something of a waste of firmware's finite resources; there are other more generally useful things which would be worth persuing first, even if it's mundane stuff like faster menu responses, greater consistency in LUT application (S&Q, playback) or things which the FS7 are popularising such as Long-GOP XAVC-L.

The cameras work really well but they coul do with a bit of polish, and I really hope that version 6 brings that, rather than just a few brochure features. It's a little ominous that this is the first version that hasn't had any kind of roadmap. Maybe more detail during NAB?

Ben
Click to expand...
 
cameramanben said:
What they seem to be suggesting is that S-Log2/S-Gamut will become a full partner in terms of Custom 3D LUTs in CineEI

…

The cameras work really well but they coul do with a bit of polish, and I really hope that version 6 brings that, rather than just a few brochure features. It's a little ominous that this is the first version that hasn't had any kind of roadmap. Maybe more detail during NAB?
Click to expand...


Yes Ben, I think you are right. That would make sense. Currently in CinEI mode if you pick the slog2/sgamut color space you have access to Sony LOOKS (4 official Sony 3D LUTs) but no access to load any custom user 3D LUTs. The menu is greyed out. I do however disagree that LUTs for monitoring in custom mode when shooting slog are needed, after all that is the purpose of a monitoring LUT. Canon has it. RED has it. ARRI has it. Sony even had it on the F3.

If Sony is now adding 3D LUT capability to slog/sgamut in CineEI mode I've already got some questions about this that I'm sure Sony can't answer. Given my recent test shows that slog2/sgamut from each mode renders color differently it means that any 3D LUT developed for the "original" slog2/sgamut won't look the same or produce the same results once they are loaded for slog2/sgamut in CineEI mode.

What a disaster.


As for NAB and roadmaps what Sony needs to do develop an entirely new firmware called "CINEMA/FILM" and then sit down with someone from ARRI to see how a real camera should work. If you do sit down and read the CineAlta magazine, professional DP's are saying the same thing we are in terms of camera limits, or confusion on how to use the cameras due to way too much depth in them. Of course when you shoot RAW a lot of these gripes go away but shooting RAW is not always an option for productions.

One thing I wrote on the Sony forums that I'd like to see is further development and evolution of the color science. Again look at RED and ARRI. Then look at Sony. The camera as-is with 4K resolution, its dynamic range, CFA, and 16-bit RAW really is "good enough" for practically anything for years to come but where it will lag behind is with 1.) color science and 2.) "polish" in terms of getting further and further complicated to use for many.

I know Sony works hard an pleasing everyone with these firmware updates, but therein I suspect lies the root of the problem.
 
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starcentral said:
This isn't F55 specific, it applies to the FS7 and F5 so I'm curious what you mean?
Click to expand...

By way of elaboration, Dennis, what I mean is that slog3/sgamut3.cine gives me such fine results, and the color space is so well suited for an F5/FS7 sensor, I see no reason to ever use slog2/sgamut. Slog2gamut and slog3gamut3 are so much larger than what an F5 sensor can see, so, your comments are much more relevant to an F55, IMHO.

I am pretty happy with slog3/sgamut3.cine shooting in CineEI and the Sony SR codec. I can't imagine shooting any better than what I see here.....As you point out, however, I WOULD like some understanding of why the colors are different between CineEI and CUSTOM modes. What kind of soft shoe is Sony wanting to get away with, here?
 
Yes I agree that with slog3/sgamut3.cine everyone and anyone ought to be real happy with the results. In my opinion it is why Sony likely launched the FS7 initially with just the slog3/sgamut3.cine color space. It was smart of them to do that, and really anytime I see FS7 footage online I think it looks quite fantastic even if shooting conditions might have been less than ideal.

Cheers,
 
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