V-LOG L Macroblocking

TDCat

TDCat

Member
I've just posted a video up clearly displaying the macroblocking problem on V-LOG L on the DVX200.

https://youtu.be/XwyOYyJ41mA

I'm here to ask whether anyone knows of ways to improve this. I've read the thread some time ago in a different forum but we're now mid way through 2016 (nearly) on firmware v.1.51 and this looks really bad.

1. Does everyone see this in all NLE / grading software?
2. What could I be doing wrong?
3. Is this completely eliminated with external 10-bit 4:2:2 recording?

Thanks all,

Torsten.
 
I've noticed this in my shots as well, while shooting UHD 59.94 (not sure if that matters). Can be very unpleasant looking, I've switched back to shooting scene files as opposed to VLOG. I haven't seen any scene files that come within a mile of the dynamic range that VLOG offers, so I'd really like to see this issue resolved, along with more improvement in shadow noise for VLOG.

Editing on Premiere CC 2014 and coincidentally grading with LOOKS like TDCat. I've had to run Denoiser at 200% to ease the issue, but obviously I'm losing valuable sharpness. Thanks in advance to anyone with some guidance!
 
I haven't tried shooting with an external recorder yet so I don't know if this makes a difference, but I remember seeing Alastair Chapman talking about using the FS5 in S-Log internally and how inadvisable that is. So it could be a symptom of shooting 4:2:0 8 bit. Also, try grading in Da Vinci and not Premiere.
 
I have tried grading in AE (rather than just in Premiere) and the same problems occur but I've never worked in a none Adobe program for grading. I assume if it's in the source, it will still be a problem but it may be a little more complex than that as there may be some issue around how the software is decoding the compressed file and reproducing the none keyframes (just guessing).

So far, I have only seen this on skin tones. It's as though there is any issue with the colours and the very tiny variations between them on skin. This is actually why I chose the subject I did for the test in the video as he has very smooth skin so the problem is very pronounced (not to mention the chubby cheeks!).

The banding issue seems to happen anywhere but I don't find that too much of a problem. It's a bit distracting but it's not unpleasant to watch. The blocking is really nasty.

I almost feel like investing in a lower priced Atomos just to test this out. External recorders are lovely but for my type of usage, they're just another thing to have hanging off the camera making it more cumbersome and less agile.

Torsten.

Web: http://tdcat.com
 
4:2:0 8 bit compression causes problems when there is noise in the shadows. Recording external 10 bit will definitely help. Try applying some noise reduction too. Might help. I've seen similar macro blocking when web compressing the footage from my D16. It produces very fine grained random noise in the shadows that many of us find quite pleasant in the originals, but it drives compression encoders crazy. Wide DR, log curves, and 8-bit 4:2:0 compression don't play well together.
 
Razz16mm said:
Try applying some noise reduction too. Might help.
Click to expand...

I haven't tried any noise reduction. The image is clean enough so far so it hasn't crossed my mind that V-LOG L also has no noise reduction applied in camera and may well need some in post. I do use Neat Video in Premiere and After Effects so I'll give that a try later and see if it does any work on these type of artifacts.
 
TDCat said:
I have tried grading in AE (rather than just in Premiere) and the same problems occur but I've never worked in a none Adobe program for grading. I assume if it's in the source, it will still be a problem but it may be a little more complex than that as there may be some issue around how the software is decoding the compressed file and reproducing the none keyframes (just guessing).

So far, I have only seen this on skin tones. It's as though there is any issue with the colours and the very tiny variations between them on skin. This is actually why I chose the subject I did for the test in the video as he has very smooth skin so the problem is very pronounced (not to mention the chubby cheeks!).

The banding issue seems to happen anywhere but I don't find that too much of a problem. It's a bit distracting but it's not unpleasant to watch. The blocking is really nasty.

I almost feel like investing in a lower priced Atomos just to test this out. External recorders are lovely but for my type of usage, they're just another thing to have hanging off the camera making it more cumbersome and less agile.

Torsten.

Web: http://tdcat.com
Click to expand...

I'm seeing it in Blue skies, along with close up skin tones. Perhaps a different grading method is what I'm looking for. colt.jpg
 
TDCat said:
I haven't tried any noise reduction. The image is clean enough so far so it hasn't crossed my mind that V-LOG L also has no noise reduction applied in camera and may well need some in post. I do use Neat Video in Premiere and After Effects so I'll give that a try later and see if it does any work on these type of artifacts.
Click to expand...

There is definitely visible noise in the shadows, not a lot, but enough to drive compression encoders nuts.
 
I am pretty unimpressed with my DVX200 right now. Just about ready to sell it. I just can't get good results. V Log shadow noise is literally horrible. I work in low light situations and when i first read reviews i heard it was good in low light. I have tried ever setting/scene file to this camera and I am not seeing good results. If i wasn't for my need for XLR inputs i would be using my Sony A7Rii and even my cheaper Samsung NX1 which smokes this DVX200. And then there is the banding i am getting too. I don't even know where to start on things i dislike about this camera. And for $4000+ it should be way better.
 
I tested this with an external recorder over the weekend. Conclusion is that the DVX200 will produce fantastic images on the internal codecs using the scene files but is not really a good option for any V-LOG L work. There are too many flaws and artifacts in the output once the footage has been graded.

It seems an external recorder is an absolute must for V-LOG work. The results are fantastic. Having said that, I'm just learning and experimenting. If you genuinely need to shoot log, you probably already know this :). Getting the grade just right is another matter!
 
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