Using a DVX & HVX at the same time

E

Evro

Well-known member
I'm an owner of a PAL DVX and PAL XL2 and I'm in the process of selling the XL2 to upgrade to an HVX.
I'd rather not buy another 2 DVXs because I'm thinking of moving into HD next year, however for the moment I intend to continue shooting in SD via MiniDV even with the HVX.

I have 3 newbie questions:

1) During multi-cam shoots will the HVX produce the same colour response as the DVX or will I have the same nightmare I'm currently having with the XL2?

2) When I attended the Sydney launch of the HVX early last year where Barry Green was the guest speaker, I remember him mentioning that there was no discernable difference between the PAL & NTSC version of the HVX because the camera has a variable frame rate. Now, the NTSC model is about $1000 less than the PAL model so that in itself is a big motivation to buy NTSC.
Can I shoot 25P & 50i with the NTSC version and if so are there other problems I'm might run into down the track?? (I edit in Vegas)

3) I do event work so none of my stuff will be blown up for theatrical release and I was wondering if shooting in 16:9 SQU mode on the DVX & native 16:9 on the HVX will show any noticable difference in the final DVD product?

Should I just stop dreaming about the whole HVX thing, buy another 2 DVXs and get on with my life?

Cheers,
 
beziermask said:
3) I do event work so none of my stuff will be blown up for theatrical release and I was wondering if shooting in 16:9 SQU mode on the DVX & native 16:9 on the HVX will show any noticable difference in the final DVD product?

Should I just stop dreaming about the whole HVX thing, buy another 2 DVXs and get on with my life?
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If you mean to be shooting to tape on the HVX, then, yes. I do mostly live event work, and can say that the DVX is generally a better solution for that. The DVX works much better in low-light conditions. The HVX HD workflow is not ideal at this point for long-form mobile shooting. There have been a few discussions about whether the HVX picture is a little sharper than the DVX picture in DV25, or whether the 16:9 is better than squeeze - but the fact that people debate it makes it clear that there's not enough of a difference that it should be your main consideration. For many lighting situations (especially where you don't have lighting control), the DVX is unquestionably superior. For what you've described, I'd say go with the DVX option.

If you're like me, and have a DVX already, are looking for something as a secondary camera on SD shoots and for occasional HD work (I use it tethered to a computer, which you may consider), then the HVX might make sense. But for what you've described, I'd say go with the DVX option.

As for color matching - it's never trivial, and the light handling plays a role. I don't know about the nightmare with the XL1, but just choosing the same settings on the HVX and DVX does not save you from having to CC a bit to get a great match.

As for PAL/NTSC - I don't know that the NTSC cam actually shoots 25P (certainly not without using some of the scene-file modification "hacks"). and if it does, I'm pretty sure it can't do so while also recording sound. I don't think that's a simple solution, either - sorry!
 
beziermask said:
I remember him mentioning that there was no discernable difference between the PAL & NTSC version of the HVX because the camera has a variable frame rate.
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That's not what I meant at all. What I was saying is that for those who absolutely *must* shoot in 24p, the European/Australian HVX does have the option of being put into a 24fps mode. However, it's only partly usable because it's in 720 only (no SD/PAL or 1080) and it doesn't record audio when in 24fps mode. And the NTSC/US version can do 25fps at 24.975, but the same restrictions apply.

Can I shoot 25P & 50i with the NTSC version and if so are there other problems I'm might run into down the track?? (I edit in Vegas)
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No you can't shoot 50i at all, or 25p in 1080i, or PAL, or true 25p in 720. What you can do is get a mostly-25p in 720 mode, but without audio.

Frankly, by all means possible you should get the unit that's appropriate for your country's TV system. The HVX is not a universal/world standard camera, it's made in different versions for PAL and NTSC territories and there are significant restrictions when trying to use an NTSC unit in a PAL region.

It is possible to put a European camera in a 720/24p mode, but it would involve some extra work on your end (dual-system sound, conforming the framerate to true 24 or 23.976, etc).

3) I do event work so none of my stuff will be blown up for theatrical release and I was wondering if shooting in 16:9 SQU mode on the DVX & native 16:9 on the HVX will show any noticable difference in the final DVD product?
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HVX standard-def 16:9 will be noticeably sharper than DVX Squeeze 16:9. But the DVX will be one stop faster (more light sensitive) than the HVX when both are in progressive mode, and the DVX will be two stops faster when both are in interlaced mode.

Should I just stop dreaming about the whole HVX thing, buy another 2 DVXs and get on with my life?
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For many purposes the HVX is the better camera. That's why it costs more. But there are a few things the DVX does better, which are:
1) less expensive
2) more sensitive
3) better interlaced mode
4) smaller, easier to hand-hold for long periods of time

If those three things are critical to you, consider sticking with the DVX. Other than that, the HVX is better all across the board.
 
Barry I'm glad you chimed in. Thanks for your informative reply.
I think I'll be going for another DVX and perhaps I'll wait till the HVX & it's P2 cards come down in price - I'm not desparate enough to go for Sony's HDV GOP format thingy.
 
Before you write off the HVX200, consider a few things:

1. The 16x9 mode is a bit sharper on tape but even sharper and cleaner if you're shooting DVCPro50.

2. The HVX200 has a stop more lattitude which is invaluable in outdoor situations.

3. The HVX200 has a 13x lense (compared the the DVX's 10x) which is very helpful in event shooting.

4. With an NTSC model, you'll get a free 8 gig P2 card. This'll give you 20 minutes of 720p 24pN which you can easily dub to mini-DV or just bring into your SD 24p project. Some silky smooth slow motion can be really nice for weddings and such.

5. You say you want to upgrade eventually. Might want to now rather than buying another DVX first.

Granted if all you're gonna use the camera for is some dimly lit weddings in 60i then the DVX is a better choice but the HVX200 has a lot to offer, even as an SD camera.
 
David, I'm definitely not writing off the HVX, however, I need to look past my desire for a cool new cam in favour of making a sound business decision.
Doing weddings can be pretty unpredictable in terms of lighting so I'd have to err on the side of caution and go with another DVX. When I was first getting used to my DVX & XL2 I had some very bad experiences with low light and I just don't want to take any risks with a new camera. Besides, most of what you shoot at a weddings is low lit interiors and using on-camera lights makes footage look like a live action police chase - YUCK!!!


Hey Ullanta, how many Barries are there???
 
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Lots! Don't you have a bunch down under? There seem to be a lot in the Australian flicks.

To quote myself from another thread:
I used to use a GL2 (now a secondary backupcam) and switching to the DVX, the low-light capability opened up whole new worlds. Situations where with the GL2 I absolutely had to bring in lighting I was able to get very acceptable images from with the DVX without lighting. And of course, many live situations where I could not light left me with footage I was extremely unhappy with with the GL2, but are easily handled by the DVX.

The HVX in many situations gives me that ol' GL2 feeling.

On the other end of the spectrum, dealing with theatrical lighting extremes, the HVX sometimes can do a little better than the DVX (perhaps mainly because I have an original DVX, with the single Cinegamma with no knee at all). But I still consider that pretty minor compared to the low-light issues - the DVX remains my main camera for theatrical events (in SD, anyway).
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If you're not eager to get into HD now, then you can be pretty sure as well that there'll be better and/or cheaper HD cams when you're ready. I'm confused about the two DVX's vs. 1 HVX. Why not buy one DVX now, and save the rest to buy an HD cam later (when it'll likely be better/cheaper than the HVX now)?

-Barry
 
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It's quite sad when our most popular Barry export is a man who does tonite shows dressed like an old woman - Barry Humphries (Dame Edna Everage) - Hello Possums!!
 
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