Used Steadicam Advice

M

msolid

Active member
Anyone with Steadicam experience please chime in and let me know what you think. I am thinking of stepping up and learning how to use a Steadicam and for my schedule the only way that I realistically will be able to learn efficiently is to have a Steadicam around that I can practice with whenever I have free time.

I found a guy on CL who is selling the Steadicam F24LEVLBN Flyer 24-LE package that retails with B&H for $8900. He's also selling some extra batteries with it. He doesn't have the instructional video that comes with it or the manual and can't furnish a receipt. He says he's had it for about a year and that he bought it new at the last NAB.

We negotiated a price of $3800. Here are my questions:

(1) is this a good price - is it within the range where if i decide that i'm just no good at the steadi or don't have the time to dedicate to learning it, i can recoup a good amount of the money that i paid for it?

(2) what missing items do i need to watch out for to make sure i'm not getting ripped off. i am planning to get a list from the website of the items that come with this package but i want advice from experienced operators who can clue me in on key parts that aren't the obvious ones that i should make sure are included. he says all of the necessary parts are included but i just want to make sure i'm not missing anything so i don't get ripped off.

(3) what wear and tear issues should i look for - which parts should i focus on when inspecting the stabilizer.

Thanks all. I'd appreciate any help/advice on this.

This is the link to the package he's selling.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...N_F24LEVLBN_Flyer24_LE_Camera_Stabilizer.html

Right now my rig is a DVX100B with adapter, rails and RR FF. Flystruer24-LE Camera Stabilizer System
 
If your planning to use that 35mm adapter with your DVX on the Flyer, you NEED a wireless follow focus, along with an independent human to operate it. Your DoF is way too short to use Steadicam in any practical way. The first option is to not use the adapter on the Steadicam, it still cuts well if you plan for it.
That price is decent, as long as the gear is still in good nick. The Flyer-LE is only about 1 year old as a released product, so it shouldn't be bad, as long as he looked after it.
There's a list of items on the pages you linked, it looks about right. Arm, vest, sled with monitor, batteries, charger, stand, docking bracket, a few cables and an allen wrench.
Check the gimbal, make sure it turns smoothly, check the arm for rust, make sure it moves smoothly. The bearings in either may squeak if not well maintained. Inspect the vest for tears and cracked buckles.
Try it on with a camera or weights to test the arm booming up and down, it shouldn't bind or tighten. Test the monitor, make sure it switches on even if you can't plug any thing in.
 
To be quite honest, this sounds like a great deal if everything functions normally. Ask the seller to demonstrate it's use, and as a reference you should watch some steadicam videos before you show up.

Steadicams simply don't loose much value, and you could turn around and sell this for a good amount. In fact I suggest you do exactly this. You don't sound much like you're very dedicated to practicing and becoming an operator, so I'd take the short road...buy it, play with it for a month, and turn around and make a huge profit on it's sale.
 
Devnull, is using a wide angle at infinity focus not a feasible option for a steadicam/adapter combo?
 
Whilst we wait for a steadicam operator (such as Mikko) to venture in here. Just be aware that its a piece of equipment that requires instruction, its not something you can just throw on. Worst case scenario is damaging your back. Please seek competent instruction.
 
Thanks Noel. I appreciate the warning. I don't expect to become proficient with it overnight and I've heard people warn about the toll and damage that improper steadicam use can take on the operator's body. I would definitely plan to take workshops but imagine that I'd be spending countless hours practicing the techniques that I learn in any classes that I might take. My primary concern is being able to resell it and recoup most if not all of my investment if I decide that I don't have the time to commit to learning the steadi. From the people who have commented on this issue, it sounds like they think this is a good price. Any other opinions out there?
 
msolid said:
Devnull, is using a wide angle at infinity focus not a feasible option for a steadicam/adapter combo?
Click to expand...

Infinity focus? This just means that the lens is focused on the point further away from the camera, not necessarily at the subject that you want to be in focus. Pulling focus with a steadicam is a tough job as you have to gauge the speed of the subject as well as the camera operator. That's why most steadicam shots you see are on wide angle lens stopped down.
 
Definitely do the workshop. As a matter of fact I wouldnt even put the darn thing on until you take a workshop or have a trained steadicam op around to show you the basics. Its an odd feeling to your body but doesnt take long to get the feel for how to use it correctly. Of course how to use it well is a whole nother story.

Would advise the Flyer workshop put on by Peter Abraham - 2 days $500. Greatest thing ever when you are just starting. Oh and Devnull nailed it in the what to look for on buying a used one. Almost like he's done it before :)
 
Hey Devnull, for the record, I never said you weren't an operator. Haha.

When I said a wide angle lens at infinity focus, what I was getting at and I guess what I really meant was with a wider angle lens, the hyperfocal distance is nearer so keeping the subject beyond that distance with the lens focused would keep the subject in a safe focused zone, no? (And added with the stopping down suggestion from Huy Vu, that would put more in focus.) But then again, I guess that would entail most shots being wide angles because the hyperfocal distance on longer lenses would probably be way too far so I guess that would impede creativity/options of shots at times.

Anyway, this is my understanding. I've never applied this to the real world since I don't have a steadi yet.
 
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To me, the price seems too small. A steadicam isn't something like a computer that gets old very fast. It's more like a lens, that can be used forever if well maintained. Therefore, I don't see why he would sell it for less than half the price. I would be very careful about this deal... (deals like this often sound "too good to be true" because they are "too good to be true")
 
As long as you are able to confirm the condition/completeness of the Flyer, and the credibility of the seller, the price is a steal.

A lot of guys buy a stabilizer only to part company with it within 12 months when it becomes apparent that Steadicam (or similar) devices do not operate themselves. It takes practice and commitment . . . if you don't have/accumlate a lot of both you should save your money for something else.

Don't worry about the instructional video . . . I threw mine away, unwatched. Before I purchased my rig I invested around 2K in the intensive, week-long workshop near Philidelphia. Was exposed to Garrett, Jerry, and a lot of talented people.

Great program. Most important thing I learned was that, at course completion, I was not an operator but that I had taken the first small (of many) steps.

Best.
 
Thanks dregenthal for the insight based on your experience. I think from the comments that people have been making, if I figure out that I'm not cut out for steadicam work then I won't be out of pocket too much.

And as for the questionable low price, I agree and was skeptical at first (and still am a bit). He has a production business with a storefront that's listed and I saw the storefront in google streetview. He's not insisting on cash and will take a cashier's check or credit card (at +2.5%). So, these things make me feel a little more comfortable with the idea that he's not just trying to lure me with cash in hand to rob me. And we negotiated for about a week and a half and it took him a while to come down in price. His original price was nearly 1K more.

He says his reasons are recession woes and needs cash fast (maybe his biz is hemorraging in debt? dunno). I'll be able to assemble it and inspect it and make sure it's all there according to the list of parts so hopefully it all works out.
 
Not all videos are equal.....BUT...If you buy the EFP instructional video you'll have a solid investment. You can find it on the main steadicam.com site

There is also the Steadicam Operators Handbook...this is a solid investment as well.

But as has been said, nothing can equal the value of a workshop.
 
devnull said:
Apparently I'm not a Steadicam operator, so ignore everything I said. Better sell my rig :)
Click to expand...

? Where did you state you were a steadicam op?

Im not a steadicam operator, but I am familiar with everything you stated. Does that make me a steadicam op? Hell no. Leave that to you pros.
 
devnull said:
If your planning to use that 35mm adapter with your DVX on the Flyer, you NEED a wireless follow focus, along with an independent human to operate it. Your DoF is way too short to use Steadicam in any practical way. The first option is to not use the adapter on the Steadicam, it still cuts well if you plan for it.
That price is decent, as long as the gear is still in good nick. The Flyer-LE is only about 1 year old as a released product, so it shouldn't be bad, as long as he looked after it.
There's a list of items on the pages you linked, it looks about right. Arm, vest, sled with monitor, batteries, charger, stand, docking bracket, a few cables and an allen wrench.
Check the gimbal, make sure it turns smoothly, check the arm for rust, make sure it moves smoothly. The bearings in either may squeak if not well maintained. Inspect the vest for tears and cracked buckles.
Try it on with a camera or weights to test the arm booming up and down, it shouldn't bind or tighten. Test the monitor, make sure it switches on even if you can't plug any thing in.
Click to expand...

Just to add to devnulls excellent advice:

-Check the socket block for any hairline crack, people tend to overload their sleds causing damage.
-Check the screws you tighten using an allen wrench were the batteries are mounted. The flyer models have a flaw that causes over time them to deteriorate and prevent you from properly position the batteries for dynamic balancing.
-Put on the full rig and with the weight of the full camera on you wiggle and squirm in the vest side to side. Listen for excessive squeaking from the buckles.
-The arm dials that control the weight have a sweet spot where they can be turned easily (usually 30 degrees up) make sure they turn easily at this spot. Inexperienced operators tend to force these dials out of their sweet spot and damage the screws.
-Fully extend the posts to make sure there is no hard spots.
-Test the rig walking DO NOT RUN.

-As everyone said take a workshop, do not practice with your rig without before. You will only pick up bad habits and the instructor will have to beat it out of you.The price is really good and steadicam retain their value

PS: It's only the first 20 years of operating that's hard, the rest is easy....
 
Nick and Emre, thanks for the insight. Oh and Emre, will my Steadicam flyer hold its value for 20 years? I might decide in year 19 that it's just not my thing.
 
msolid said:
Nick and Emre, thanks for the insight. Oh and Emre, will my Steadicam flyer hold its value for 20 years? I might decide in year 19 that it's just not my thing.
Click to expand...

I think once the antigravity body mounts come out, you might want to get out from under that steadicam:huh:
 
Ask if it has ever been used in the rain or on a beach. Sand can totaly ruin the gimbal and the arm. Whenever I operate on beaches I put the arm in a plastic cover, so check for stand and grindy sounds when you move the gimbal around...
 
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