Used Sound Gear - Do's and Don'ts?

O

OldCorpse

Rockin the Boat
As a budget saving measure, I am quite open to buying used gear when it comes to filmmaking. I have no issues buying used cameras, lenses, lights, light modifiers, grip gear and so on, but there are also rules of thumb for what you DON'T buy used - for example, I don't buy used/refurbed hard drives. So my question is, what SOUND gear it is relatively safe to buy used, and what you should avoid buying used? My question was prompted by the fact that I just bought a used Tascam DR-60Dmkii from B&H for $119. After I bought it, I wondered if buying a used recorder is considered a safe thing. I have bought used - and had no problems - many mics, mic holders and stuff like a boom. But it made me wonder about if there are any rules of thumb.

It goes without saying, that for any such purchase, you should try to get it from a reliable source like B&H, and on eBay from vendors with good ratings - I have bought from both and had no problems. Also, obviously, you should pay attention to the rating (B&H has a rating system for used gear).

But what SOUND gear should you avoid as a used item? I can think of some things that would make me nervous - for example I'd be nervous about buying a used xlr cable, since there is no way of knowing how the cable has been handled (dreaded 'around elbow' wrapping!), or if it might be internally frayed or whatnot.

Anyhow, that's the question: what's safe to buy used and what is not in the Sound Gear World? Bonus question: was buying the Tascam DR-60mkii rated 9 at B&H a fairly safe bet?

Thanks in advance!
 
Sound gear doesn't change anywhere near as fast as camera and even lighting gear.
One of the "old hands" over on another (audio) forum has a signature line something to the effect that you should have a microphone that is "obscenely expensive". And there is some wisdom behind that. Because a good microphone doesn't go out of style with different formats or sample rates or analog vs. digital gear or recording media, etc. etc. etc.

OTOH, cheap gear isn't really an "investment" but may be expedient as a temporary measure until you can justify buying good quality. For example your Tascam DR-60Dmkii is a rather low-end, mass-market, plastic pro-sumer recorder. The MK2 was a bit improved over the original model, and it may have something above average price/performance ratio. But it is no Sound Devices, et.al.

I would not buy ANY used gear without some way of return/refund if the goods don't live up to the explanation. And especially lower-end pro-sumer gear which didn't have exemplary performance to begin with. And gear which may have been abused or mis-treated from its previous owner.

B&H is a reputable dealer, and I don't have any reason to discount their rating claims.
 
I think it has a lot to do with what level of risk you are comfortable with. I have bought a lot of used gear over the years. Some has been a great bargain and some has been largely a waste of money. I am quite comfortable opening and working on analog pre SMT gear so that is a factor in what I will gamble on. Generally my list of preference would be New, Factory Refurbished, used from a reliable source with some return possibility, used from a person I know (the only reason they would be slightly lower than the dealer is that there is always the chance of issues with relationships..., Used from garage sales and other in person transactions (where you can actually do some tests), and finally used from places like eBay. What I am willing to pay generally slides down the same scale. An edge to anything I can test or know I can work on or get worked on.

Auctions have really been the worst in terms of value, real auctions not eBay. I would stay away from things that have parts that wear out, so I'm not likely to pay much for any device that uses video tape technology such as DAT machines and old camcorders. You just can't get that stuff repaired. An old Reel to Reel on the other hand is pretty repairable, if you feel the need for tape.

Mic.s are a gamble since you really have no idea how they were treated. I have a fair number of used mic.s and have not had problems with junk used ones but I'm always very cautious.

Consumer gear is more likely to not last than pro gear. You can literally drive a car over a MixPre and not break it. But there are so few moving parts in todays recorders that I suspect they will have a long life.

So for me it's a price VS risk scale paired with need. For a great bargain on something I know I will use a lot I will risk a bit more. For something I need to use all the time my risk factor is a lot lower. If I know I can repair it and it's a durable product I'm more flexible.

There is really nothing "safe" to buy, just things that are "safer".
 
In the past eight years, I've purchased eight audio mixers (Sound Devices, Soundcraft, Mackie), four Mackie monitor speakers, a K-Tek boompole, and over a dozen microphones (Sennheiser, Shure, Rode, Audio-Technica, Electro-Voice) from a variety of used sources, mainly through eBay or ads here on DVXuser. I bought one other mixer, and another 10 - 12 microphones new in that period. I've had extraordinarily good luck with the used equipment. Of that lot of equipment, the one item with the most problems was actually the mixer I bought factory fresh. One other small Soundcraft mixer had an auxiliary input that didn't work, which is only a minor problem, and it was only a $50 item in the first place, so I'm in no way bent out of shape about it. One of the Shure dynamic microphones was dirtier and more beat-up looking than the auction photos led me to believe, but I was able to clean it up some, and it sounds and functions just fine, even if it isn't anything I'd want to show off in public very much.

Some of the equipment, especially the Sound Devices 302 mixer and a few of the microphones, have been just about indistinguishable from brand new, and I suspect that in many cases they were purchased for a project but never actually used by the original owners. Yet I've been able to get them for a third to half of the new price. These savings have made up many times over for the very few items that have had minor issues.

I agree about buying cables and other items subject to hidden wear and tear. And as it happens, I haven't purchased any used recorders, but I'd be open to it if the right item came along when I needed it. I've been able to afford some higher-end equipment this way that I wouldn't have bought otherwise.

I do have a strategy, which is that I have a wish list, periodically updated, of equipment I would like to have in the future. I don't buy anything on a whim that isn't already on my list, and I'm patient -- I wait until I see a good deal on a piece of gear that appears to be in good shape, and that I can afford out of available funds at that time without gambling on whether it'll pay off right away. If there is something I need right away for a specific project, I'm more likely to buy a new one from a reliable vendor to get a guaranteed delivery date and an enforceable warranty. I also buy most of my really key equipment (cameras, general purpose mics that are used every day) new and use the used stuff to fill in gaps in my collection over time (not to say that some of it doesn't get plenty of use).

But generally my opinion of used equipment and the current marketplace for it is positive. I've had better luck buying through the for sale ads here on DVXuser than probably anywhere else (in terms of quality, not quantity).

- Greg
 
OldCorpse said:
As a budget saving measure, I am quite open to buying used gear when it comes to filmmaking. I have no issues buying used cameras, lenses, lights, light modifiers, grip gear and so on, but there are also rules of thumb for what you DON'T buy used - for example, I don't buy used/refurbed hard drives. So my question is, what SOUND gear it is relatively safe to buy used, and what you should avoid buying used? My question was prompted by the fact that I just bought a used Tascam DR-60Dmkii from B&H for $119. After I bought it, I wondered if buying a used recorder is considered a safe thing. I have bought used - and had no problems - many mics, mic holders and stuff like a boom. But it made me wonder about if there are any rules of thumb.
Click to expand...

The Zoom H4 that I bought was used... the SD card had some sort of recording... and this has led me to believe perhaps I bought a not only used but 'hot' item... In any case my basic rule of thumb for used is must be < 1/2 current new price. I've also bought the Oktava I have given that price requirement.

The recorder upgrade I'm anticipating however I'm buying new...

I will probably be looking for a used shotgun and wind abatement cover in the near future.

I did buy a larger mixer used, and while the signal pathways seem to have no 'problem', the LED level display didn't work (as advertised...). When I opened it up, I found a burnt up quad analog amp chip... don't know know how that happened... and perhaps one of these days I'll solder in a replacement... but otherwise the analog circuits work, so other than the level display, I haven't had problems.
 
I've had pretty decent luck buying used mics recently, figuring out what to buy from all the great contributors here. I think the key is having a list and being patient. One thing to remember is not everyone is going to beat the crap out of their gear or use it all the time. In my case I'm an enthusiast and not a professional and much of the stuff I buy is so I can figure out how it fits in my workflow and actually works. As I've figured out what has worked for me I sell all the other stuff and folks on eBay and DVX User have gotten some decent deals from me over the years, I chalk much of that cost as the price of learning. There are some things I regret getting rid of, like my MixPre D, I never should have sold that. :(
 
In a somewhat related topic. If you are looking for some piece of gear, especially older stuff, asking on a list is not a bad place to look. The resale price on a lot of older gear is so low that it's not worth it to sell. You can get some really good deals some times. The biggest items in that category would be rack gear since the cost of shipping in some cases is more than what you can sell something for. DAT machines and DA88's etc. Many have years of life in them and while the work flow is not as instant as files etc. it is the way a lot of sound tracks and music were made. Especially if your not using them in a professional setting. At one time analog synthesizers were going for the price of scrap. I wish I had had the foresight to buy a bunch... But I did pick up a sampler that originally ran $10K+ for $300 and that has been a workhorse.
 
Thank you everybody, lots of interesting thoughts and tips! Like I said, so far I've been lucky with used sound gear from B&H and eBay, and given the info above, I guess I'll proceed with more confidence.
 
My experience is that high end sound gear is generally a good investment when you buy it used. If it works, it works and it is extremely unlikely to have problems. Buy a beat to hell Sound devices mixer and it will still work like new. Low end equipment can have problems and will wear out over time. The Tascam 60D is probably fine and it is better to buy it used than new, but expect that it will wear out if you don't baby it.
 
I had an experience early on where I purchased a mic that had a corroded battery in it. I bought it off eBay so I was covered. I knew after that to ask to see the battery compartment. After searching for a used mic for a long time and being outbid by people who were paying way too much for a used low level mic I decided to buy new. I'm happy about that. I take great care of my gear and I know the History of that mic. But since then I've purchased some better mics used from Craigslist had really good luck. I do make sure to test everything but most people selling quality items seem to be just better people.

I'm really picky now buying on eBay. Even though I know I'm covered it takes a lit of effort to get your money back. Sometimes it's just better to buy new and know what you're getting.
 
Sure, absolutely, sometimes it's better to buy new. Especially when prices on eBay are crazy. Why would I pay for a used eBay item when I can get it new for like 1% more in price - the prices people are willing to pay for used stuff just doesn't make any sense to me. Unless I'm saving quite a bit, there is zero incentive, might as well buy new. The other thing you have to watch out on eBay is counterfeit goods. There were some scandals when fake Sennheiser mics were sold - looked very much like the real Senns, but were cheap Chinese imitations. That's a chance you're taking when you buy used. But if you know what you are doing, sometimes buying used can make sense.
 
If liquid has gotten in then you need to really do a good testing of all the functions. Really clean water that didn't get into mechanics should probably be OK but tap water has lots of chemicals like chlorine and Fluoride etc and often a lot of minerals that can cause lots of problems. Salt water that wasn't washed out quickie with all the power removed is probably a goner.
 
Buy new XLR's and other cables. XLR's are cheap and you can get them from any music store. Don't risk messing up your audio over something as trivial as a bad cable.
 
I have had great success buying used Sound Devices gear and mics from BB list. The thing I have decided never to buy used is lavs. No telling what life they have led and from what I've read they appear to age badly. I wouldn't buy used xlr cables either.
 
I do auctions and purchase used gear selectively. Here are my rules which are only broken in cases of extreme gear lust:

Try to find out about the seller. I hate to say it, but I usually don't buy from DVXuser listers unless they have a few hundred postings. I go back and read their postings. Basically I'm looking for someone who seems honest, participates often, and is not snarky. On eBay, if they don't have a near perfect selling history, (99.8% or better) I skip them. IMHO, eBay is more shaky than this user board, though with eBay, you might have a little protection, a very little.

Never spend more than you can afford to lose. Repeat the last sentence several times.

Make sure you know what you are buying. I purchased a fairly expensive lens on eBay once from the original owner with invoice. He advertised it as a version-2 and sold me a version-1 for this model. I called him on it and pleaded ignorance....for the money, it wasn't worth the hassle and expense of pressing for a return. Ask questions about the details and photos are a must. The quality and If you are concerned, ask for something current to be included to verify the photo

Insist on tracking numbers.

Try to find the shippers address, Google it and make sure it isn't a vacant lot or a junkyard with razor-wire fencing.

On more expensive and sensitive audio stuff, have the seller send it to Trew or a good servicing dealer to inspect. Pre-negotiate a purchase offer pending inspection. Offer to pay for the cost of a positive inspection.

I have purchased a few large ticket used consignment items from Trew. Trew has been very honest with me about condition and it is their reputation to maintain. The prices are a little higher than classified or eBay, but it works great, you have the right of return before they pay the consignee, so Trew brokers the deal to satisfaction of both buyer and seller. I am sure there are other outfits that do the same.

Grant
 
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