Used hvx200 Buyers beware,

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reem12

reem12

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I'm writting to all potential and concerned future buyers of hvxs on the market place.
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Recently I purchased a used Hvx200 from a gentleman that started a sells thread on dvx user that sported he had an hvx 200 for sell with only 3hrs of total use on it.

After recieving the cam and ruining simple light test, I sooned realized that, this cam produces amazing footage as the dvx did but lacked in comparison in the low light capabilities, so therefore wouldn't suit imediate needs of shooting weddings.

Here is where the issue starts. I didn't waist time putting this cam back on the marketplace knowing that this cam has only 3 to 4 hrs of total usage and $3800 for a litely used hvx should sell quick.

The only problem with this whole scenario is, after going into the p2 menus and going into others I found the hidden usage hrs. not a whole lot of people know that this menue exist. This gives you total operation hrs. not just the heads. so what was previously stated as being only 3hr of usage now became 120hrs. of usage.

I imediatly took down my hvx200 sells thread after finding that the original seller CINEMASCREEN had decieved me.

I contacted him about the situation and he responded by saying he never new that menu to dheck hrs existed and not to worry because the hrs are not on the head. So let me get this straight. I just handed you $3800 for equipment that has no warranty and I should just say it's ok you miscalculated the usage hrs by like a 115hrs.

I understand that these are mimimal hrs using the p2, but the point is, I was mislead on this transaction, when asked why he was selling, his response was he's an editor not a shooter and only used it little for 1 job. well I responded back to him that, I used a dvx for almost a whole year straight and just broke 100hrs.

A long story short. CINEMASCREEN didn't no about the other hrs meter as i'm sure alot of others seeking to sell there hvx don't know either, so they are sporting bodly the low hrs on the tape port but are failing to mention the other hrs on the total operation.

I have since asked for a full refund and return and was told by him that it will not happen, so I've now put the ball in motion with paypal and my credit card company to recoup my funds for misleading info. Depending on the outcome will put the cam back up for sale if the judgement does not go in my favor, but will knock $300 off the $3800 if it comes to that.

Hope this help any potential used hvx buyers.
 
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Hey reem12, sorry to hear about the situation. That has got to be frustrating.

I saw that listing... looked like a good deal. That is a lot of hours on a camera that only has 3 hours on it!

So what is the story? Does the camera rack up the hours if it is powered up? Or are there 120 hours of use on a P2 card?

I imagine the 3 hours are on the head via the use of tape. Right?

Really sorry to hear about yor woes. Good luck to you.

Curious, because I have been looking... the HVX needs that much more light than the DVX? That's too bad.

Finally, you state that there is no warranty. Is it a grey market? Or did it expire?

If you end up looking for a buyer, I may be interested. You sound like an honest guy... a quality that MOST dvxusers share. And I would love an HD camera and am always looking for a good deal.

Again,

Good luck. Sorry to hear about your misfortune here.

-Ted
 
dvxuser Cinemascreen.... I don't know you and I am not trying judging you. However after reading what reem12 posted above, I find it surprising that you will not refund the guy his money.

The one thing that I absolutely love about dvxuser.com are the members. This place is a place of knowledge and friendship. A place where we can share our experiences and learn from others. And it is a place where I feel that I can shop and sell with confidence.

Maybe you didn't realize that the camera you sold had tallied up all of those hours on it. Maybe you did only shoot 3 hours of footage. But when you are confronted with the truth, the honorable thing to do would be to offer the guy a refund. You must admit, (I would think), you would be very upset if you had made that purchase and later found out that the hours were grossly mis-represented.

Anyway... as I said, I don't know you and I don't mean to judge you. And I probably should just keep my mouth shut. But I "reside" here on dvxuser.com and I am proud to be a part of this community.

If you feel justified in the sale, so be it.

I've had my say. Please understand why I write. It is only to protect us all.

-Ted
 
reem12 said:
I have since asked for a full refund and return and was told by him that it will not happen, so I've now put the ball in motion with paypal and my credit card company to recoup my funds for misleading info. Depending on the outcome will put the cam back up for sale if the judgement does not go in my favor, but will knock $300 off the $3800 if it comes to that.

Hope this help any potential used hvx buyers.
Click to expand...

Was the camera actually broken when you received it? NO. I mean seriously, maybe the guy made an honest mistake... and it's not like he put a DVX in an HVX box and sold it to you. You're acting like a baby about the whole thing. Bummer, it's got a few more hours on it. You wouldn't have paid any less for it even if it had 500 hours on it.

Not to mention the HVX is 99% solid state and almost completely bulletproof.

On top of all that, if you'd done your homework you'd know that the HVX ain't great in the dark. What it really sounds like to me is you made an ill-considered purchase, are having buyers remorse and trying to pawn the blame off on somebody else.


If Cinemascreen tried to pull one over on you, certainly, shame on him. But seriously, get over it.
 
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ouch!

Seriously man, I agree that the hours probably don't mean a thing since they are not on the recording heads but wouldn't you be upset if you bought something that had 40 times more hours on it than stated?
 
I dunno, the low light problem is your problem if you didn't research it.
As far as the hours meter goes, if you didn't know that there was an hours meter, and further more didn't ask the seller to verify the hours, in a used camera market, I think you're SOL. And rightly so. If the seller wants to be cool and give you a few hundred bucks back and it was an honest mistake, that's his perogative, and frankly that's what he should do, but as far as you getting a full refund after not asking him to verify the hours, frankly I wouldn't refund the money to you either. But then again, I would have shown you the hours meter.....which come to think of it, shows up often in pictures in the marketplace on dvxuser.....you've never seen one?
And I wouldn't call the hours meter "hidden" it's in plain view in the menu. And I would submit that most people DO know about it.
Additionally, I don't think the hours meter is running when you're in P2 mode, only when you're in tape mode. Don't quote me, but I'm 99% sure on that.
 
So Reem12 how do we get to the 'secret' total hours menu?

Whenever I've seen HVXs listed in marketplace they usually have a photo of the lcd displaying (tape) hours. So I'm not sure if it's fair to say that Cinemascreen deceived you. If the cam had a heap of hours then yeah, I'd be pissed too.

Sounds like you got a good deal but are not pleased with the hvx lowlight performance more than anything. If you were pleased with the LL performance would you still be after a refund?

Ian
 
Do not agree, if the guy says there are 3 hours and there is not, then it was a deceptive sale, full refund should be made available. The whole point of him buying it at that price was the hours, would he have bought it with 120? Appears not. Yes I always ask for the screen shot, but that does not mean I should be lied to. If it was an honest mistake, then as the seller I should offer the refund or at least a discount.

Mike
 
If anything was to come out of this thread it would be great if people selling HVXs must list total hours (how do you get to that menu?) and tape hours.
 
Not picking either side here, just a FYI. My hvx is about a year old and record time is around 90 hours of recorded footage. But the hour meter is at 230. Which leads me to believe the meter is ticking the entire time its on. I am only recording on p2, just a fyi.
 
Okay so now I'm confused. Your camera, that you purchased from the poster, says 120 hours on it, and he posted a picture with the hours meter at 3? If that's the case, and the pic is of the hours meter on a different hvx, that's fraud.
But on the other hand, you said you didn't know about the hours meter in the menu, yet you saw it in the posting......so what is the freakin' story here?
EDIT: Now I get it and me thinks this: the p2 hours are fairly irrelevant as the mechanism has no moving parts. If the total head hours are indeed 3, then that's what the deal is about. And where your issue seems to be. Your resale value is totally unaffected. I take back the fraud bit. I don't think you have a case here at all. Total hours usage doesn't have much relevancy to the value of your camera.
my 2 c
 
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Just curious. Did you do a firmware update when you got the camera. The reason I ask is the hour meter on my camera for the p2 side of the camera was part of the firmware update. Which would mean my camera would show 0 hours since I have not ran tape in it. That is if I had not done the update. Again not picking sides just my 2 cents.

Edit: My point is if the firmware was not up to date the only mete would me the meter on the dv side. Until firmware is updated and then you get the meter on the p2 side.
 
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Well, I agree that the hours are probably meaningless. I think that the issue is the poster stated that there are only 3 hours on it and that it has seen very little use. When in fact it has been powered up for a total of 120 hours. That's 5 days. Maybe it wasn't recording for 5 days but it was powered up. That is a big difference then stating it has 3 hours on it.

Anyway, I do agree that the poster is most likely innocent of "fraud" but it does trouble me that the guy isn't willing to work with the buyer.

And if all of this is because the buyer now realizes the limited low-light capabilities of the HVX and is trying to get out of the deal, then shame on him.

Just too bad, all in all.
 
It's a matter of being informed. Hours on the tape side of the camera are different than operating and recording hours on the P2 side. Because there are no wearing parts in P2 recording, the total recording and operating hours will likely be a non-issue. I've likely racked a hundred hours with the 200 passing video from my laptop-based travel NLE to a production monitor. The thing is powered on, but nothing more.

If I were to sell an HVX I might likely only list the total tape hours as well. In light of this thread, it does make sense to drill down and publish the full usage data, much like when you sell a professional videotape deck.

My bet is that the HVX isn't worth any less on the open market than if it were really a 3-hour camera. If it were a couple hundred hours on the tape side, then perhaps less.

I'd give the guy the benefit of the doubt with respect to the question of honesty and integrity and sell the camera to get something you need.

Publishing the complete operation and recording hours data should indeed be the new best-practice, regardless of whether it has any effect on the device.

e
 
If the total hours menu is hidden and the seller should not be expected to know of its existence ("found the hidden usage hrs. not a whole lot of people know that this menue exist.") then the seller can hardly be accused of misrepresenting the camera. Considering the very few hours on the heads, sounds like you got a great deal. Nice to know you can access the total camera cpu time as well as the head hours. Why don't you post the directions for others benefit.

Hope you didn't ruin the camera's karma. Have fun.
 
and from the pictures showing the menu with the hours you can tell which menu he's in. Generally (to me at least) when someone says hours - its hours on the tape heads. You got exactly as described. Wouldnt worry about it. You got a good deal. Go shoot something.
 
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