Greyfus Wolf
Active member
Yeah it would be nice if BM made it possible to record higher fps in a more compressed codec
Probably won't be possible in uncompressed RAW since it would take up too much bandwidth
Used AF100 or new Blackmagic?
- Thread starter Inveresk
- Start date
Yeah it would be nice if BM made it possible to record higher fps in a more compressed codec
Probably won't be possible in uncompressed RAW since it would take up too much bandwidth
PopcornFlix
Well-known member
From BMD specs, BMCC active sensor is 77% of area of AF100's sensor. Crop factor compared to Cine35 (not FF) is 1.36, where AF100 is 1.19.
This means a "normal" 45º AOV requires a 30mm lens on a Cine35 camera, a 25mm on an AF100, and a 22mm on the BMCC. If you like to go wide, a 71º AOV requires a 17mm on Cine35, a 14mm on AF100 and a 12mm on BMCC. (Figures rounded for convenience.)
AFAICT, the BMCC only requires a slightly wider lens than the AF100.
This means a "normal" 45º AOV requires a 30mm lens on a Cine35 camera, a 25mm on an AF100, and a 22mm on the BMCC. If you like to go wide, a 71º AOV requires a 17mm on Cine35, a 14mm on AF100 and a 12mm on BMCC. (Figures rounded for convenience.)
AFAICT, the BMCC only requires a slightly wider lens than the AF100.
hscully
Veteran
I'm not sure I'd want either my AF100 or GH2 on a RC copter! Let alone my lenses! Yikes!
You may not need that particular upgrade. It provides for 1080/60p from my understanding. It's not something I would get right away. I shoot almost exclusively in 24p but it's nice to know it's available and it may prove valuable for your commercial pursuits as broadcasters, I believe, are the target for the upgrade.
It's hard to know why one upgrade costs something and another is incremental. I guess because some vendors like Red have made it a part of the culture to "future proof" their cameras they have created and alternate ethos around these types of charges. I dunno... if I needed 60p with audio, I'd think it worth $250 since I don't have to go buy a new camera to get it.
GrahamH
Well-known member
The AF100 has less jello because it scans it's sensor faster (which I assume is why Pany has now been able to add 1080p60, whereas Vasily has not been able to do so on the hacked GH2). Nothing to do with the LPF, though.
hscully
Veteran
Jello oops.. I think I said that. Rolling shutter is improved in the AF100. That's obvious to me I have both. Not sure why. Refresh maybe? The OLPF for aliasing and moire. Also HUGELY reduced on the AF100. That is my understanding but I admit it is somewhat above my pay grade and my GH2 is unhacked currently.
and my GH2 is unhacked currently.af100 is more flexible in terms of features
blackmagic youve got the main thing: 12 bit raw footage. a lot of the features would probably a hassle to do on the touchscreen but totherwise it does what generally everybody wants. shoot raw at 13 stops.
i still think af100 useful. i plan t sell it. but if i dont get any buyers, i could might as well keep it for VFR.
fs700, hurts my wallet too much. i love it but i gotta stick to reality and focus on whats important, storytelling
blackmagic youve got the main thing: 12 bit raw footage. a lot of the features would probably a hassle to do on the touchscreen but totherwise it does what generally everybody wants. shoot raw at 13 stops.
i still think af100 useful. i plan t sell it. but if i dont get any buyers, i could might as well keep it for VFR.
fs700, hurts my wallet too much. i love it but i gotta stick to reality and focus on whats important, storytelling
I have the same misgivings as you, one of the reasons the GoPro is on the shortlist. If and when I develop confidence in the reliability of the kopter, I might risk a GH2 on occasion. Payload would not support a AF100.I'm not sure I'd want either my AF100 or GH2 on a RC copter! Let alone my lenses! Yikes!
hscully
Veteran
Check this out from a while ago! I had to find it. These shots are just sick. It's AF100 on some kinda copter http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...Remote-Helicopter-First-Test&highlight=copter
refocusedmedia
Veteran
Plus $6000 for the FS-700.. FTFY
It wasn't an "oversight". It was a choice based on their current hardware.
I'm feeling a RED moment with the Blackmagic camera...
I like BlackMagic .. we use their ATEM boxes, some of the acquisition cards. But .. I can tell you one thing about them .. the first
version of anything they've ever come out with requires several iterations before it stabilizes and is considered "production" worthy.
They eventually get there .. but their philosophy is to get to market fast .. and then patch the problems later.
They also quietly version products with little fanfare .. witness the Hyperdeck shuttle one to two. The transition was not entirely
obvious to buyers or retailers.
This is the first camera product they've come out with .. some of the components are likely to work well . thunderbolt port,
SSD drive .. but .. there are a lot of electronics between the sensor and the storage systems .. and Blackmagic has exactly
zero experience in this area. Granted, they use FPGA's a lot and can re-flash them to correct problems. But, there will
be problems .. and likely production slips.
There's a reason they're giving away a full copy of DaVinci for free
The other thing I predict with this product is that the time to volume will be long ... so you may be in the queue for a while
before you get one.
I'm not entirely clear on what Blackmagic calls the "active" size of the sensor .. if that's the imaging portion, it's a bit smaller
than MFT .. and a bit of a stretch by Blackmagic to claim it's MFT.
But, the 2.5k resolution and the 13 stops are certainly compelling...
In any case .. if you want to get shooting today, the GH2 suggestion is not a bad way to go.
Sounds like for your usage, you may not need the "video" features of the AF100 and the
GH2 would be a much lower cost entry point.
As has been suggested, investing in an external monitoring / EVF would be wise because pulling
focus on the GH2 for video can be a challenge.
May we live in interesting times,
jeff
PS: I hope I don't seem overly negative about Blackmagic's camera entry. Kudos to them for putting out
an intriguing product!
I like BlackMagic .. we use their ATEM boxes, some of the acquisition cards. But .. I can tell you one thing about them .. the first
version of anything they've ever come out with requires several iterations before it stabilizes and is considered "production" worthy.
They eventually get there .. but their philosophy is to get to market fast .. and then patch the problems later.
They also quietly version products with little fanfare .. witness the Hyperdeck shuttle one to two. The transition was not entirely
obvious to buyers or retailers.
This is the first camera product they've come out with .. some of the components are likely to work well . thunderbolt port,
SSD drive .. but .. there are a lot of electronics between the sensor and the storage systems .. and Blackmagic has exactly
zero experience in this area. Granted, they use FPGA's a lot and can re-flash them to correct problems. But, there will
be problems .. and likely production slips.
There's a reason they're giving away a full copy of DaVinci for free
The other thing I predict with this product is that the time to volume will be long ... so you may be in the queue for a while
before you get one.
I'm not entirely clear on what Blackmagic calls the "active" size of the sensor .. if that's the imaging portion, it's a bit smaller
than MFT .. and a bit of a stretch by Blackmagic to claim it's MFT.
But, the 2.5k resolution and the 13 stops are certainly compelling...
In any case .. if you want to get shooting today, the GH2 suggestion is not a bad way to go.
Sounds like for your usage, you may not need the "video" features of the AF100 and the
GH2 would be a much lower cost entry point.
As has been suggested, investing in an external monitoring / EVF would be wise because pulling
focus on the GH2 for video can be a challenge.
May we live in interesting times,
jeff
PS: I hope I don't seem overly negative about Blackmagic's camera entry. Kudos to them for putting out
an intriguing product!
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I've made the deal on the AF100. It comes with a 25mm Voigtlander 0.95, with adapter and various accessories including 5 batteries and a decent shoulder rig. I already have 2# m43 Lumix zoom lenses I can use. The camera has 22 hours on it.
I'm not keen on dslrs for video (I already have an EPL1) so didn't want to go the GH2 route.
I'll need to buy memory cards - none supplied with the AF100. Is there a preferred speed? I see they're available from 15 to 45mb/sec. I also need to invest in a decent shotgun mic and a tripod and head. I'll head on over to the dvxuser marketplace to see what's on offer. I'll look to add sliders and the like later.
Thanks, all, for your advice which helped guide my decision.
I'm not keen on dslrs for video (I already have an EPL1) so didn't want to go the GH2 route.
I'll need to buy memory cards - none supplied with the AF100. Is there a preferred speed? I see they're available from 15 to 45mb/sec. I also need to invest in a decent shotgun mic and a tripod and head. I'll head on over to the dvxuser marketplace to see what's on offer. I'll look to add sliders and the like later.
Thanks, all, for your advice which helped guide my decision.
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Barry_Green
Moderator
Just divide 36 by the width to get the crop factor. 36mm / 15.6mm = 2.31 crop factor.
Congratulations! .. I'm sure you'll be happy with the AF100 and the Voigtlander is a great lens.
As far as SD cards go, we've had the best luck with the Lexar Professional Class 10's .. although some
of my AF100 brothers and sisters swear by Panasonic Gold ones.
The only advise I can give you is to not go cheap on them .. it's not worth losing a day's shoot
for $20.
Although if you wanna get the best out of the camera .. an external recorder (Samurai,etc.) would
be something to consider as you gear up.
For shotgun mics, are you looking for camera mount or boom mount?
Tripods and sliders .. so many out there .. budget and need might refine the picture...
Congrats again!
jeff
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Jon Furtado
Well-known member
Wait, it's not bad enough that we're Frankensteining monitors, viewfinders, shoulderpads, handles onto our cameras....you have to do it with a battery solution too?!!
Thank you.
Camera mount for the mic. probably.
Name of the game at this stage is to kit up with decent (but economical) gear so I can still make the microkopter purchase and stay within budget.
Jon Furtado
Well-known member
I'm feeling a RED moment with the Blackmagic camera...
I like BlackMagic .. we use their ATEM boxes, some of the acquisition cards. But .. I can tell you one thing about them .. the first
version of anything they've ever come out with requires several iterations before it stabilizes and is considered "production" worthy.
They eventually get there .. but their philosophy is to get to market fast .. and then patch the problems later.
They also quietly version products with little fanfare .. witness the Hyperdeck shuttle one to two. The transition was not entirely
obvious to buyers or retailers.
This is the first camera product they've come out with .. some of the components are likely to work well . thunderbolt port,
SSD drive .. but .. there are a lot of electronics between the sensor and the storage systems .. and Blackmagic has exactly
zero experience in this area. Granted, they use FPGA's a lot and can re-flash them to correct problems. But, there will
be problems .. and likely production slips.
There's a reason they're giving away a full copy of DaVinci for free
The other thing I predict with this product is that the time to volume will be long ... so you may be in the queue for a while
before you get one.
I'm not entirely clear on what Blackmagic calls the "active" size of the sensor .. if that's the imaging portion, it's a bit smaller
than MFT .. and a bit of a stretch by Blackmagic to claim it's MFT.
But, the 2.5k resolution and the 13 stops are certainly compelling...
In any case .. if you want to get shooting today, the GH2 suggestion is not a bad way to go.
Sounds like for your usage, you may not need the "video" features of the AF100 and the
GH2 would be a much lower cost entry point.
As has been suggested, investing in an external monitoring / EVF would be wise because pulling
focus on the GH2 for video can be a challenge.
May we live in interesting times,
jeff
PS: I hope I don't seem overly negative about Blackmagic's camera entry. Kudos to them for putting out
an intriguing product!
Yeah, this whole blackmagic camera sorta reminds me of the digital bolex camera too. There's a term for the bolex though..vapor ware!
It's astonishes me that people think a camera can be just engineered by a bunch a people who know NOTHING about cameras. There's a reason why there's only a handful of real manufacturers: Sony, Panasonic, Canon, JVC, etc. It's because it takes precission engineering and complex circuitry, filmware, sensors, compression algorithms, housings..etc. This isn't something intended to be whipped up in your garage or at a small company.
I love camera tech. But I don't think i'd plunk down my hard earned cash on something that has ABSOLUTELY NO TRACK RECORD like the BM Camera or the Digital Bolex. For those of us like Phillip Bloom who have cash to burn and blogs to write, sure, this seems like fun. I'm busy trying to work as much as I can and create art.
It comes down to this: Does an artist need a $1000 paint brush to create art? Can he just NOT create great art without that $1000 paint brush? I'm sure many great artists created masterpieces in the past with a $1 brush.
Well, it isn't being touted as a video camera, it's being touted as a cinema camera.
Here is what today's digital cinema cameras look like:
Notice the monitor, viewfinder, rods, battery, follow focus, expensive 2060HD (it looks like to me).
That's what a digital cinema camera looks like today.
Here is another one:
Notice the viewfinder, top and bottom rods, deck, overall size. I've had this on my shoulder, it is not a toy.
If people are looking for a large sensor video camera, the AF100 fits the bill and offers the most for the money in regards to being a video camera. Pretty easy to sort.
I dig the mirokopter! .. Great piece of gear .. but you're not going be taking any audio off of that camera mount
Ok .. let's eliminate one audio possibility .. the camera AF100 mics .. don't use 'em . unless you've got some kind of TMZ thing
going on in front of you.
Shotgun mounts on cameras have always puzzled me .. unless you're doing interviews close to the subject, the
microphone often wants to be much closer to the subject(s) than the camera does. Hence, the boom.
In film/movies .. we want to hear the subjects speaking as if we were very close to them . while the shot the cinematographer
has chosen is quite a bit aways.
Hence the dichotomy of sound vs. visual.
So .. I recommend a dual-utility shotgun mic that can be camera mounted .. but also has the polar rejection characteristics necessary to be
a boom mounted shotgun mic.
Don't want to give you buyer's remorse .. but the mic-level pre-amp on the AF100 ... well .. it sucks (at least to my ears). The camera
is much happier being driven line-level .. which may suggest an off-camrea pre-amp.
But, before you go here .. rent/borrow/steal a shotgun mic and listen to see if the AF100 & mic are giving you what you want.
hope that helps,
jeff