Unmanned Audio

Macphilia

Macphilia

Well-known member
Hi. I'll be shooting a short and for directorial reasons, I cannot have anyone on set beside myself and the actor. Thus, I would like insight about the best mic situation.

I would like to record directly onto tape via 2 XLR connections on my DVX-100A. Since I will be operating camera, I cannot "mix" sound live.

Here's the context for the two scenes. Note: there is NO DIALOGUE in either scene.

1) Woman in bedroom smashing things up, throwing things around, then crashing atop the bed.

2) Woman in bathroom going through medicine cabinet then applying make-up.

My plan is to mount a mic (shotgun/hypercardiod?) on camera, which will always be aimed at talent, and hanging an omni from the ceiling...

Any thoughts??? Thanks so much. :dankk2:
 
stereo par from the ceiling for the first shot
something over the medicine cabinet in the secend , to pick uo as less camera noise
 
Oleg 2 said:
stereo par from the ceiling for the first shot
something over the medicine cabinet in the secend , to pick uo as less camera noise
Click to expand...

What's a stereo par??? And would one stereo mic tie up both inputs on the DVX? As far as camera noise, I've never experience any when using an external mic mounted on a DVX, especially when mounted on a dedicated hot shoe shotgun mount.

And other thoughts???
 
2 Mics in stereo configuration or 1 stereo mic
as fur as he camera noize you probably never shoot in dead silence with camera 40 cm from the subject :-)
buy beter headphones ( or mixer ) :-)
 
Macphilia said:
...would one stereo mic tie up both inputs on the DVX?
Click to expand...

Yes, which is one of the reasons you should be running your mics through a mixer. If the action is going to be pretty dynamic (eg. smashing things, followed by quite production foley), someones going to have to ride the levels to esure that the peaks don't blow out and the subtle bits aren't lost in the camera's noise floor. you've already stated that you won't be able to squeeze a boom op' into the room while you're shooting, but is there any reason why you can't run audio lines out of the room to a 3- or 4-channel mixer so the sound mixer can ride the levels as needed? The mixer's ENG snake shouldn't restrict your movement any more than the cable from an overhead plant mic would. Heck, you could piggyback a video line onto the ENG snake, so that your script supervisor could watch the scene on a monitor next to the mixer.

I would strongly reccomend mic'ing the actor with a wireless lav. Even though there's no scripted dialogue in the scene, you're probably in for a fair bit of non-verbal stuff that is very difficult to re-perform as ADR. Ragged breathing, mutterring under her breath, or other subtle performance elements are difficult to pick up via plant mics (to say nothing of on-camera mics).
 
Come to think of it, you should shoot a couple rehearsals without actually smashing anything. That way, the dialogue editor will have a wild take of all the production foley, allowing them to rebuild the track should the smashes prove unuseable (cutting in effects as neccessary).

I'm assuming that you don't have crates of identical breakaway vases and mirrors for multiple takes of the bedroom scene.
 
Thanks...

Thanks...

Thanks for all the insight thus far. I never did think about a mixer stationed in another room. Good thought!

Any other thoughts would be great.
 
if you bring it out to a external mixer, maybe a compressor/limiter inline to tame the hot signals. That will keep you from riding the faders quite as much.
 
I would use the onboard mic as a giude track and do it all in post. Now before anyone screams at me, this would not be my normal recommendation but if your not going to let a sound person on set then the sound is just going to be too distant to work very well and you also said there was no dialog. Record the guide track and budget for Foley and FX in post. It will sound much better.
 
Reading back through this is suddenly struck me as odd that the actress would be comfortable enough with her nudity to allow herself to be FILMED nude for all the world to see but is not comfortable enough it to allow the minimal necessary crew on the set for the scene that is required to do the job properly. Are you certain that the requirement of having only one person on the set comes from respect for what you think are her sensitivities and not from your own discomfort? Not suggesting that you should allow a crowd of gawkers around but there's a certain minimum below which you can't go and get the job done properly. You wouldn't set up the camera locked down on a tripod, show the talent how to turn it on, and leave the room would you? Why do you think sound can be done that way and get good results? If the scene makes you this uncomfortable to shoot properly, maybe you should re-evaluate your staging or think about whether it should be in the film at all - perhaps there's another way to make the story point that doesn't require nudity.

Maybe I'm dreaming back to the attitudes of the 70's when a warm summer Saturday afternoon would find several thousand naked people relaxing and socializing at Devil's Slide beach or hundreds enjoying the sun nude on the shores of Marin's Scriotti Pond, but I suspect you're over-estimating the actress's discomfort with being nude in front of a minimally sized professional crew or the crew's ability to be professional when working with nude talent.
 
Steve,
You certainly raise a valid question regarding the possibility of my own discomfort. However, note that I am shooting two additional scenes without a crew, not just the nude scene.
I'm experimenting with my own method as a filmmaker. Shooting without a crew present may end up becoming a bust - who knows.... I'm simply fishing for ideas regarding sound in such a situation.
The overwhelming conclusion I've deduced after all the insights, including those from another forum, is that there probably is no ONE WAY of recording sound in my situation. And there definitely is no perfect way. Based on all the comments thus far, I'm going to make a choice and run with it and I'm sure it will be fine. Probably not optimal, but good enough. After all, it is an ultra-low-budget short with the primary goal being praxis, not sale or distribution.
Thanks....
 
Macphilia said:
... Based on all the comments thus far, I'm going to make a choice and run with it and I'm sure it will be fine. Probably not optimal, but good enough. After all, it is an ultra-low-budget short with the primary goal being praxis, not sale or distribution.
Thanks....
Click to expand...

When you consider that in a theatrical production virtually everything you hear is created after the fact and placed by the sound designer working with foley artists, etc, it's going to interesting to hear how recording practical effects works out in comparison.

One caution about the notion of "not optimal, but good enough." Years ago I worked in a company whose internal corporate motto, referring to their product standards, was "Good enough never is!" And placing that motto into practice made them a brilliant success in the early and mid 80's. Later, as they grew larger and more challenging to manage, they gradually began to compromise on that standard and that subtle change of attitude marked the beginning of their decline.
 
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