FS7: Universal lens solution for FS7

P

Plini

Member
I have read many, many posts here but would like to ask my question very specific (although I know there will not be "the one answer")

In September 2014 I bought a PMW-z100 as my main area for Video will be weddings and small interviews.
My customers are most likely not able to tell the difference between HD and 4k - but it is a big deal from a marketing perspective.
The Z100 is a nice camera from the versatility but for ME the Image Quality is not sufficient (low light, stabilization, lens Quality wide open...).
(I am coming from a high professional photography side - and have much higher requirements than my customers)

As I need a second camera anyway I'm looking for a better solution and am much tempted by the SONY FS7 for the sensor size.
I'd love to have a real shoulder camera for stabilzation but with the many rigging solutions (man what a thread ;-)) that should be feasible.

What I am asking now is for a good lens solution also for low light (church, reception) where I don't have to give up AF and IS
(I'd love to do it all manual but there are situations where speed is everything):

1 The Sony FEPZ 28-135 although perfect from a Price range and features is not an option as 28mm resulting in 40mm is not wide enough and F4 is also not very breathtaking
2 Sony SEL 1670FZ would cover a good range - but is it good enough for high video standards? Are the AF and IS working nicely?
3 I own a lot of Nikon glass (17-35, 2.8, 24-70, 2.8, 70-200 2.8, 200 2.0,...) using with a metabones Adapter would be a cheap solution but as far as I found out no AF no IS
4 If I buy Canon lenses (photo lenses) and an Adapter how good are they compared to real Video lenses and how is AF and IS Situation there?
5 Is there any chance Sony will show up (at NAB) with a more usable version of the 28-135 ( = 16-80) and probably in 2.8 and not 4.0

I know that there are perfekt solutions for big Money but if I'd had this Budget I wouldn't buy the FS7 but F55 ...

what are your recommendations?

I need a solution before I press the button to order (after the NAB anyway)
 
AF on video is basically a joke - it is only going to sort of work with Sony lenses on the FS7.

In terms of 'quality' (sharpness) pretty much any glass is good enough for compressed video.

The lens I would test is that 16-70 which might be good.

..or just soldier on with the nikkors
 
If you want AF you need to stick with Sony lenses. Metabones adapters won't maintain AF in any adapters.
If you want IS its either Canon or Sony. Altogetehr its hard to find perfection:

The Sony 18-105 has numerous issues - It needs auto lens correction to get rid of severe pincushioning and that uses a lot of processing power- hence it won't work in 4K or High speed and it cramps LUTs so if you use a LUT in CINE EI (Slog3) then you must record the LUT directly. All of those issues made it a no go for me in addition to which the Sony fly by wire manual focusing system is frustrating.
Good working IS lenses are the Canon 24-105 F4 (with speedbooster is aprox 17 -70 f2.8). It works well but is not top quality glass. The Tamron 24-70 IS f2.8 is better glass and becomes 17-49 f2 w speed booster.
The Sony 18-200 has IS and AF but is slow 3.5-6.3 . Pretty useable though it still has the Sony manual fly by wire focus.
You could check out the Zeiss Sony zoom (24-70 f4?) which is good glass and might be both IS and AF (?) but its F4 and won't work with speed booster.

I think that's about it if you want AF. The Nikon's work fine for manual but the metabones adapters annoy me as the click less iris ring on the adapter does't open up the iris all the way - stops about a half stop or so short. You could declick them for $60 @ at Duclos though and just use the real iris on the lenses that have them.
Other non AF non IS are Tokina 28-70, and the older canon FD lenses, as well as a few more.

That's what I've discovered.
 
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Len - you mean the 18-105, that is the distortion/correction lens, the 16-70 is a differnt lens, im guessing 'no' distortion

I have the 18-250 on paper it is useful but I hate the manual focus so much I use it.. never.

Mainly I use Booster+28-85 manual nikkor and nikkor primes

That is a combo I have arrived at after owning most of the options..
24-105, tonka 17-55 etc.

The only lens that interests me at the moment is the Stigma 18-35 cine version which if they release centre crop would become king of a hill.

Centre crop release (or not) is a bit of a game changer for the options as S16 zooms and ENG lenses with a doubler come onto the map and will rock for single lens shooting at events.. so Id wait for the next firmware before making any choice.

S
 
28-85 Contax Zeiss for me, with or without speed booster depending on what I am shooting. That and the Zeiss 80-200 are my only zooms.
 
For me, filming live performances, I've had quite a lot of success using the Sony lenses in manual mode and with 'Face Detection' activated. Then hitting the 'Push Auto' when needing the auto focus. The best one for this, in my experience, is the 18-200 PZ. It also has the 'active' mode IS, which works great. Too bad it's too slow for many situations.

Also, I don't think the FS7 has the face detection?

For weddings the A7s actually seems quite ideal. Combine it with the 28-135 and you'd be golden for most situations! The A7s' 2x digital zoom is actually rather useful, you have face recognition (and you can register faces, like the bride) to give them priority.

That said I've been on a similar quest for my FS700. I film mostly live performances and music videos/performance videos. and usually there's a lot of time pressure so changing lenses is quite distracting. I'm waiting for a decent native e-mount zoom with f2.8 and IS.
 
Have you thought about C100 mk2? Or is it very important to stay on a sony platform?

The reason I'd suggest the C100 mk2 is that it has reportedly very good autofocus with native canon lenses, which would also benefit from IS. Lastly, the C line, from what I understand, are very good low light cameras.

The drawback is the lack of 10bit color depth...which may not be a huge deal for your wedding clients if you manage to come up with some good on-camera picture profiles and such. Another drawback for you may be that it's not necessarily a shoulder mounted camera naturally, but then again, I've heard people saying that the FS7, albeit trying to be shoulder mounted, is not really that great on the shoulder either. I have not tested the FS7 on my shoulder, but I know the C100 can be mounted on very nice shoulder rigs.

Anyways, food for though
 
You are entering the murky waters of the ideal lens for the FS7. The same question can be asked of all the larger sensor cameras and there are as many questions as there are solutions.
As for me, I use mostly my Nikon zooms via a Metabones Speed Booster adapter. This allows me to use legacy lenses that I am familiar with and that I already own, like the Nikon, 17-35, 24-70 and the interview king, the 70-200. All these guys hold focus throughout the zoom and are a 2.8 throughout the range. Bad news is they don't communicate with the camera so you need to manually focus and control iris. Those of us who have been in the pro side of video are pretty much used to this and in most cases prefer it.
The lens you are referring to is what we have been calling The Kit Lens, the 28-135. The lens is big and designed for a full sensor camera. The FS7, like the f3, f5, f55, the Arri Alexa, etc. are all Super 35mm so you have a crop factor of 1.4 x the mm. So while the kit lens is a 28-135, the field of view (FOV) is actually more like 40-189. It has it's place as an interview lens and maybe even an event lens, but as a running gun piece of glass, it's not a good fit. The fact that it's an f4 is only slightly problematic as the FS7 can gain up pretty high with no appreciable noise. The lens does communicate with the camera and AF and AE will work and it does have a power zoom control but the lens cost $2500.
I opted NOT to get the kit lens but rather the Sony SELP 18-105 zoom. This is a pretty nice piece of glass. Very lightweight. It communicates with the camera for both focus and iris. Once you get used to it, you can kill the auto function and just use it in momentary mode. The lens is a fly by wire so there is that slight lag between rapid focus and rapid iris and the zoom is not rapid fire but since it communicates with the camera, the zoom control handle and iris control become active. The lens is also designed for the full sensor array but with the crop factor the FOV is more like 25-143. That's respectful. And if you shoot 4k but publish 1080, you have lots of room to zoom in during the edit with no picture degradation if you feel you need to get just a bit tighter on the bride for instance. The best part of this lens is the price. It's only $600. I've tested it against some other lenses including the kit lens and it's a nice, sharp piece of glass. Not sure who makes it but I suspect it's Zeiss.
So if you are moving over from the stills world, I'm betting you have some glass that will work just fine with the FS7 via an adapter and for $600, the Sony SELP 18-135 zoom is a good bet.
 
morgan_moore said:
Len - you mean the 18-105, that is the distortion/correction lens, the 16-70 is a differnt lens, im guessing 'no' distortion

I have the 18-250 on paper it is useful but I hate the manual focus so much I use it.. never.

Mainly I use Booster+28-85 manual nikkor and nikkor primes

That is a combo I have arrived at after owning most of the options..
24-105, tonka 17-55 etc.

The only lens that interests me at the moment is the Stigma 18-35 cine version which if they release centre crop would become king of a hill.

Centre crop release (or not) is a bit of a game changer for the options as S16 zooms and ENG lenses with a doubler come onto the map and will rock for single lens shooting at events.. so Id wait for the next firmware before making any choice.

S
Click to expand...

You really think Sony is going to have a center crop firmware upgrade? Haven't heard that one but that would be sweet if it's true.
 
Yes I meant 18-105. I was really disappoint when I realized I couldn't use that for lens in Slog unless I was recording the LUT.
 
Of course any corrections done in camera can be done in post (with the right, probably non existent tool) - lens correction in post is defacto in stills

S
 
Many thanks for the good Information

It seems that the Sony SEL 1670FZ is probably the best Option (maybe the 18-105 as well but I think the Quality of the 1670 is higher) and an Adapter for my existing Nikon lenses.

Has anyone used the SEL 1670FZ with the F7s already?

Plini
 
Lenilenapi said:
Yes I meant 18-105. I was really disappoint when I realized I couldn't use that for lens in Slog unless I was recording the LUT.
Click to expand...

I do. I use it for Cine EI slog3/slog3.cine without the LUT burning in. I think some of you folks have issues that are beyond the firmware bugs. As in defective cameras. Another example is slow menus. My menus are almost always speedy. Certain mode changes sometimes take a few seconds more like the ones that tell you to reboot.

i believe you also said your MB Ultra would not let a manual Nikkor either open or close all the way. I have so far not seen that issue either. Isn't their something in the manual about either opening or closing the lens all the way before attaching the MB Ultra?

I am assuming you understand the 18-105's main issue for some of us is the lack a of correction above 1080/60p.

One thing folks should do is reboot the camera when changing modes even if it does not tell you to.


Y'all be cool,
Robert
 
Robert, are you using the lens correction while shooting in Cine EI? I believe I did try connecting it with the iris open or closed or something , but maybe not as I don't remember reading the online manual. That would be nice if it worked correctly. I'll try it with the regular MB as I still have one around for a day or so.
Never tried rebooting either.
 
Lenilenapi said:
Robert, are you using the lens correction while shooting in Cine EI? I believe I did try connecting it with the iris open or closed or something , but maybe not as I don't remember reading the online manual. That would be nice if it worked correctly. I'll try it with the regular MB as I still have one around for a day or so.
Never tried rebooting either.
Click to expand...

Yessir, using lens correction for my selp18105 when in CineEI. Doesn't work of course with the Nikkors on the MB Ultra.

BTW, the lens correction/selp18105 appears to have worked this past Sunday shooting internally Slog3/CineEI/UHD/23.98p/XAVC-I. I need to view a clip on a TV, but on my 27" EIZO in Resolve the lines looked straight. And for those not familiar, an uncorrected selp18105 has pretty severe barrel distortion.

I think in another thread somewhere you said the Ultra is working now with your Nikkors so that is good.

Y'all be cool,
Robert
 
Lenilenapi said:
Morgan, you can't correct pincushioning in post in video. Maybe in stills.
Click to expand...

Think ya can in After Effects. I recently saw a tutorial on correcting wide angle distortion. VFX software is pretty amazing these days. And unlike others, I RARELY use the word amazing.

Hope y'all havin' fun,
Robert
 
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