[unhappy face] B+W ND filter

A

Andy9

Well-known member
I'm setting up my a7Siii so I can leave the FX6 at home when IBIS is essential.

I bought a B+W 0.9 (3 stops) ND filter last year and it's been excellent. More recently, I added a B+W 1.8* and it has a very warm colour cast. I was looking for a replacement online when I stumbled across this on Amazon about the 1.8:

"Manufacturer's Description
...Because of its higher transmission in the red beyond 660 nm, this filter brings a slightly warm tone to color photographs. If this effect is undesirable, a B+W UV-/IR-Blocking Filter 486 in front of the neutral density filter (not behind it!) remedies that situation.”

I'm extremely annoyed about this. According to B&H, (blurb about the B+W 1.8 ND filter) "Filter does not affect coloration of the image and is ideal for use with other filters." Unfortunately, I didn't buy it from B&H - they'd possibly be sympathetic. I've sent a few emails to Schneider and... crickets.

So, I'm trying to decide what to do. The UV/IR filter they recommend adding is 200 USD! https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...r_cut_486.html

- Does anyone have experience of using a UV/IR filter to remove the cast from an ND filter? Does it work well?
- Will a cheaper UV/IR filter do just as well? I'd rather not give B+W any more money but I will if it's the best solution
- I'm wondering why I paid so much money for an ND filter with a colour cast - is it pointless to buy high-end? Has anyone here progressed from buying top-end filters to buying cheaper ones like Hoya because why bother? I'm particularly interested in Hoya, Freewell and NiSi as they seem to get a lot of pro use where I am.

Maybe it's purely a limitation of physics and any 6-stop ND filter will have a colour cast. In that case though, I may as well go cheaper and perhaps not bother with solid ND at all and just get a couple of variable NDs.

Anyway, you're opinions would be appreciated!

*B+W XS-Pro MRC-Nano 803 ND 0.9 82mm
B+W F-Pro 106 ND 1.8 E 82mm
 
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some pointless comments.

if solids are bad varis will be worse

cameras with built in nd are much under rated

ir cut is well used/established with heavy nd

id get an ir cut filter, maybe start with a mid price one and slap it on your nd
 
Once you get past a few stops, maybe 3-4 stops, you need IR-cutting filters.

I remember learning this the hard way early in my career as no one really talked about it, and I had many ND experiences with my Blackmagic cameras which had weak IR-cutting filters built into them (all cameras do and they vary, including ones with ND filters which are usually much better as noted above).

I use Formatt Hitech Firecrests which are pretty popular and very nice. Here's a typical 77-mm 6-stop that would cover most situations and lenses, and sometimes is on sale for $70 or so: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._irnd_1_8.html

Once you get into 82mm and beyond the prices increase - but, sometimes, depending on the strength, there are other sales. Best to invest in the largest one you can and use with step-rings if doable.
 
I looked at the B + W 1.8 on BH site and multiple reviewers noted the color cast. Shouldn't be on a relatively pricey ND filter like that. B + W has a good rep but this is pretty crappy. You shouldn't have the inconvenience of adding UV/IR. I've given up on sub-$200 vari-ND filters and just went with Peter Mckinnon Polar Pro. No color cast that I can see...
 
Noting which PM you have, 2-5 stops or 6-9 stops, is probably something you should tell him...

Polar Pro mentions some of their filters are "neutral well into the IR spectrum to eliminate IR contamination", but I only saw that on a few so not sure if that would apply to all (didn't see it on the variable ND ones).

Best way to immediately know how well, in general, any of these filters work is to look at the blacks in the image; if they are turning warm/brown/red, the filter needs IR-cutting.

Eventually filters will need IR-cutting; there is no magic formula. But most people are satisfied in that 3-4 range, and many will not even notice a change if the filter is decent with 4-5. With 6+ stops, you will start to see changes, and quickly, IMO.
 
NorBro said:
Noting which PM you have, 2-5 stops or 6-9 stops, is probably something you should tell him...

Polar Pro mentions some of their filters are "neutral well into the IR spectrum to eliminate IR contamination", but I only saw that on a few so not sure if that would apply to all (didn't see it on the variable ND ones).

Best way to immediately know how well, in general, any of these filters work is to look at the blacks in the image; if they are turning warm/brown/red, the filter needs IR-cutting.

Eventually filters will need IR-cutting; there is no magic formula. But most people are satisfied in that 3-4 range, and many will not even notice a change if the filter is decent with 4-5. With 6+ stops, you will start to see changes, and quickly, IMO.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that's really helpful. It sounds like an IR cut filter might be a useful thing to have regardless. I'll probably get the Hoya (115 USD) rather than the B+W (200 USD). Those Firecrests look ideal - there's a lot of discussion about how well they deal with IR in the B&H reviews. I might get the 4-stop version.

I'm also looking at variable NDs. I've heard good things about the PM Polar Pros but it was a wall of marketing last time I looked so I was a bit suspicious, they seemed to be everywhere. A couple of people here (Hong Kong) have recommended NiSi, specifically for lack of colour cast but I don't know if they meant across the whole range or just the 1-5 stops vari.
 
I set out to find the best ND solutions for my A7IV & A7sIII earlier this year and my main goal was to eliminate color casts. I watched a ton a YT videos and am very pleased with the two filters I purchased:


NiSi True Color ND-VARIO Pro Nano 1 to 5-Stop Variable ND Filter (77mm)

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...tcvnd0_3_1_5_77_77mm_true_color_nd_vario.html


Haida 77mm NanoPro MC ND 1.8 Filter (6-Stop)

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1343408-REG/haida_hd3294_77_77mm_nanopro_mc_nd.html


They did not break the bank either!
 
A bunch of companies make IR Cut filters, e.g. Formatt Hitech Firecrest UV IR Cut, Tiffen T1 IR, SLR Magic Image Enhancer, etc., but the filters don't stat at the same nanometer range, so you'll have to do some research to figure out which one is best for your situation. Blackmagic forums are a good resource, as all of their cameras are quite susceptible to IR pollution.

P.S. I though the PolarPro VNDs pushed the sky toward cyan on example footage I watched.

P.P.S I haven't found any ND to be truly 100% neutral, particularly at higher attenuations, but if the color cast is subtle enough, it might not warrant post correction.

P.P.P.S Why can't they make cameras with multiple gain circuits ranging from 12.5 ISO to 5000 ISO that dynamically switch to the cleanest gain circuit as you change the ISO? This would eliminate the need for ND filters.
 
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NorBro said:
Noting which PM you have, 2-5 stops or 6-9 stops, is probably something you should tell him...

Polar Pro mentions some of their filters are "neutral well into the IR spectrum to eliminate IR contamination", but I only saw that on a few so not sure if that would apply to all (didn't see it on the variable ND ones).

Best way to immediately know how well, in general, any of these filters work is to look at the blacks in the image; if they are turning warm/brown/red, the filter needs IR-cutting.

Eventually filters will need IR-cutting; there is no magic formula. But most people are satisfied in that 3-4 range, and many will not even notice a change if the filter is decent with 4-5. With 6+ stops, you will start to see changes, and quickly, IMO.
Click to expand...
2-5
 
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