Undercranked too smooth

B

Beth Cramer

Member
I did a test for an undercranked look on the HPX 170
scene file 6
720/24PN
12fps

It didn't look as charlie chaplin as I'd like it. It was too smooth. My lighting was not great which is probably why it didn't look film like, but could there be a better setting for this effect?

I'm shooting a music video that may end up on broadcast tv as well as internet. I thought 720/24PN would be the best mode but I could be wrong?
 
you probably wanted a lower shutter speed - like 70 or 90 degrees to give you that choppy feel
 
You'll get a very different look from 720/24p @ 12fps, as you will at 720/24pN @ 12fps.
24pN @ 12fps = fast-motion
24p @ 12fps = stuttery movement.

Try 'em both to see which you prefer.
 
shutter speed confusion between degrees and percentage

shutter speed confusion between degrees and percentage

Sorry I'm still confused about the shutter speed settings.
When shooting undercranked 12fps at 24PN to change the shutter speed do I have to go into the SCENE FILE MENU and toggle the syncro scan to YES and then change from 180.0d to a desired number? One suggestion was use a 70 or 90 degree shutter. Or do I just change the shutter speed on the camera body using the shutter - speed select + or-? Of course that shows percentages?
I guess I don't understand the difference between the fraction and the .0d.
and how it relates to shooting 24PN. Yikes.

Also, I read someone's recommendation to shoot 2fps at a 350degree shutter. Do I need a special program to be installed to do this. I've been seeing "hacker" talked about but don't get it.
 
Hi, Beth..
The shutter button and speed sel buttons on the camera body allow you to set a few various shutter speeds and select 180 degrees for film cam mode, as well as turning the shutter off completely. If you want to change the shutter speed to something specific other than the presets, then yes, you need to access the synchro scan mode in the scene file and use the buttons on the top of the HVX ( or similar on the HPX) to increment or decrement the shutter values. You can do this here in very small amounts for precise shutter speeds. Be sure that your shutter is not turned OFF first by checking using the buttons on the camera body.
Secondly, the shutter angles (i.e. 180.0 degrees) are indicated when you are in FILM CAM mode. In the VIDEO CAM mode, you will see the fractions displayed to represent shutter speed (i.e 1/48, 1/60 etc.).
If you purchased Barry's book, the included CD has a collection of variable framerates you can load via the SD card and select (to get the 2 fps for example).
Hope this helps.
Dan
 
Thanks very much for that. When I did my test, the shutter and speed select button on the camera only showed fractions 1/250 etc. even while I was set on scene file 6 in FILM CAM mode. When I went into the scene file menu synchro scan I was given degrees. Should the shutter on the camera body change to degrees as well?

Also when I changed the shutter speed within the scene flle's synchro scan it did seem to take effect even with the shutter OFF on the body of the camera.
Could this be right?

I didn't see how the two ways of changing shutter speed corrallated.
I really appreciate your guidance.
Beth
 
Yes, the shutter on the body must be changed to the syncro scan speed. You'll find it located between the slowest and fastest speeds (so, go to 1/2000 and then go up one more, and you'll find syncro scan)
 
Got it! So if the shutter is OFF does that mean it reverts to a 180.0d shutter? Is 180.0d the optimal shutter speed for shooting 24PN? I am going for a shallow depth of field in some cases. I know your book says to have an open iris and get close to your subject while being zoomed in as far as you can, but should I also change the shutter degree?
Thanks Barry. I'm really trying to follow your book you do make everything very clear.
I'm just in boot camp here.
 
No, if the shutter is OFF it means that it will default to 1/60th in 60i/60p mode, or 1/50th in 30p/24p mode.

180.0d is useful when shooting overcranking or undercranking because it tracks with the frame rate the same way a film camera does. But if you're shooting 24pN @ 24fps, you won't really see any difference between 180.0d and OFF (which is 1/50th).
 
So are you saying in order to do overcranked I don't have to change the shutter or turn it on? If I want the overcranked to be more dramatic i.e. charlie chaplin like should I change the shutter speed to say 90 degrees? Why bother spending time changing the sychro scan or turning the Shutter on if I keep it at 180.0d? Is just changing the frame rate to 12 going to be enough?

Also I was testing shallow depth of field. When I open the iris, it was dark so I turned the shuttter on and put it at 1/250. It visually gave it more exposure in the view panel. But if i choose 180.d when turning on SHUTTER on body of camera and then change the degrees in syncro scan menu I have no visual. I think what I'm asking is: When trying to achieve shallow depth of field I should open the iris, but to get more light should I change the shutter speed?
And if I'm zoomed all the way in and I'm close to my subject how will the subject be in focus!? I know practice makes perfect, but I'm still trying to grasp this.
Thanks in advance,
Beth
 
The syncro scan shutter changes the exposure time as the frame rate changes. If you know exactly what shutter speed you want, just set it directly. If you want to change your frame rates, and have the shutter speed automatically track and adjust to the new frame rate, that's when you'd use the syncro scan speed.

No, don't change the shutter speed in search of more light, down that path lies madness. The shutter speed affects the motion blur in your shot. You should normally leave it alone unless you know exactly what you're doing. Use the iris, and the ND filters, to control the exposure.
 
Hi Beth,

The 180.0d is just the normal angle of a film camera and you could say the norm for shooting film. You talk about shallow depth of field. The two are unrelated. Your aperture or iris in a video camera controls DOF. Small F number(lens wide open) shallow depth of field (DOF). Large F number (small opening) greater DOF. Because the CCD of theses cameras is small it is very hard to get soft out of focus backgrounds like you can get with a 35mm film camera or digital SLR. So the best way is zoom right in to the telephoto end of the lens and back up as far as you can to put as much separating between your subject background so as to throw the backgound out of focus. Then use a small F number (open iris up as much as you can) to create as shallow a DOF as you can once you have your subject in focus.

The other area you have questioned is the shutter angle 180.0d. Imagine the 180.0d shutter as half of a circle on a center axis spinning. Each revolution is one frame of exposure for the exercise. So a 180.0d shutter is open for half the time of a full revolution. That gives what a people call a film look. Slightly strobie if you pan a camera to fast whilst filming the subject. Now if you were to set that same shutter to say 250-300.0d the frame is exposed longer, so there would be more motion blur in each frame. Now look at the other side, which is what you are trying to achieve. If you close the disk so that the shutter is open only for say 80.0d or 120.0d, then for each frame the shutter is going to be closed for a longer period of time before you see the next frame. Open for 120/Closed for 240 = 360. So because you only expose for a very short period, there is a longer time span before you see the next frame of time of your subject. When played back the subject takes on the motion of a Charlie Chaplin movie, because of the shorter frame exposure time of each individual frame.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top