Umbrellas or diffuser box

A

Angelshare1

Well-known member
Right now I've got a Home Depot DIY lighting set up. You know, work lights, ect. I'm looking to upgrade to a more professional kit. I was thinking of light sets like these: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/270099-REG/Lowel__Omni_light_Two_Light_Kit.html

The price is around what I want to spend ($400-$500). Are diffuser boxes preferred to umbrellas if you have to choose one or the other? Is the light easier to control with umbrellas over diffuser boxes?

Also what are tota lights for? I mean I know what they are, but what advantages do they have over traditional "round" lights?
 
The Tota is a "broad". It is very effective if you have to light a large swath. As an example, I recently had to light a corridor where we needed to raise the ambient light levels. The Tota was able to provide a beam of light that spread wide enough for me to light the entire length of the corridor. I usually bounce a Tota off a floor or ceiling, or use it when I just need an uncontrolled blast of light somewhere.
 
Angelshare1 said:
Really? What don't you like about it?
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I don't mean to come down on you, but it's frustrating when people don't even look at the lighting forum to see the dozens of discussions we have on these starter light kits week after week, month after month.


So what don't I like about them:

1. They are all softboxes. This offers nothing in the way of variety. Softboxes have their place, but they are not the right solution for a great many lighting scenarios.

2. They have no method of spill control. While softboxes offer a lovely, soft light, they tend to spill all over the place and get light in places you really don't want it. Professional lights have options to deal with this. Maybe these have it as an option, but it's certainly not included.

3. The stands look terrible. I certainly would not trust them.

4. RED FLAG "Fan-Cooled". If you want your lights to ruin the audio in your recording, then this is perfect. But no professional set of lights uses an internal fan because it destroys audio.

5. All the lights have the same power. Sometimes you really want more punch and a 1k is helpful. Sometimes you just want a kiss of light and a 350 would be better suited. No such option here. If you want less light you can bulb down most likely, but you can't go up.

6. The stands only rise to 7'10". For a standing subject, you'd want your lights at least 8-10ft high if possible.


You can buy these if you want, and maybe they will work for what you want to do. You don't make any mention of your intended uses for the lights. If you are shooting non-moving, non-talking, seated subjects in 200sq.ft. of space, then maybe this will work great. But I wouldn't waste the money on them personally.
 
With bounced light you loose about 2/3 of the voltage while with softbox you only loose 1/3. So for instance if you use 650w light bounced then it turns into a 200w light direct while if you use the same light with the soft box it still retains much of its power as it only becomes 400w light direct. Thus softboxes are more efficient power wise.
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
With bounced light you loose about 2/3 of the voltage while with softbox you only loose 1/3. So for instance if you use 650w light bounced then it turns into a 200w light direct while if you use the same light with the soft box it still retains much of its power as it only becomes 400w light direct. Thus softboxes are more efficient power wise.
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Say what? There are so many variables involved in these calculations that this can't even be thought of as a rough guide.

Suppose my diffusion on the softbox is double gridcloth, or bleached muslin? How much light loss then? Or suppose my bounce is a silver flexfill? Or a mirror? How much light loss then? Suppose my light is 10ft away from my bounce card, or 1ft away? How does that change the scenario? What's the difference in light loss bouncing off ultrabounce and bouncing off gator board? Or even white foamcore?

The only way to know what your light is (in advance), is to know each variable, and calculate. On set, just measure it.
 
Even though in theory you are correct in practice it's not so. As we are using standardized lights (300w, 650w, 1k, 2k, 1.2 HMI, etc) and standardized bounce materials (foamcore, white wall) and diffusion materials (216, Light Grid, Grid, Opal, etc) at some point from practice one can get a rough guide of what's needed to get the job done. I mean, i can't imagine that you set up lights then by trail&error play with different diffusions and bounce surfaces... This is what you do (and i have extensively) in your studio not in the stressful environment of the set.

And yes, the example i provided is very rough but it gives you a good starting point.
 
While I don't disagree that experience using certain materials enables one to make some good guesses, I honestly don't know the drop-off in light in my softbox from bare to putting the diffuser on. I keep the photometrics in my ipod so that if I don't have a lighting plan, I can make some rough guesses as to where I want things before I pull the meter out.

Someone new to this won't have an idea of how the surfaces work. And even if you've been doing this for a while, you can get surprised when shooting on location. I had this happen recently. I drew up a lighting plan for a bedroom in which we needed to simulate a window with morning light. When I lit it according to my plan, I was WAY over. Then I realized that we were bouncing off the baby blue semi-glossy walls, and not a flat white like I would normally be doing. I quickly corrected for it, but those kinds of things can quickly catch you out. Shooting in a white flat-painted room, versus a bathroom with white tile. Etc.

Sometimes you just can't "light by numbers" unless you know the space.
 
Don't buy a kit. Purchase used lights, and buy what you need. Those kits are expensive, and you can build up your own for the same price, and get double the lights. Search ebay, there are always good deals. Also, call up your local rental house, they may have some old lights kicking around they'd be willing to sell.
 
I just did a shoot today with umbrellas- used to laugh 'em off and use all my scrim frames & softboxes. I like that they're fast, light, and cheap.

There are two kinds of umbrellas - the "scrim" kind that you shoot light through, and the kind that are reflective. Using the scrim style today, my light was too hot for a very quick gig. I just rotated the stands around, so some light was reflecting back (while a lot just passed through into the void). Perfect.

Softboxes are great in that you get no spill - shooting a fresnel at a framed scrim, you'll get light bouncing all over. Softboxes are great with grids. BUT... they're too damned small for many uses; get them far enough away to cover a decent area and you've got pretty hard light. A 3' x 4' softbox is good for a low-key, mid-shot interview (and of course tabletop product). I've got smaller softboxes, haven't used them in years.

Giant umbrellas can be handy, but again, it's a distance thing - the relative size of the soft source compared to the talent is what makes softness. For the same look as a 2x3 softbox, 2 feet from a face, you might need a 10' soft source 6 feet away.

If you're not shooting some kind of dark-moody deal, one of the best things you can do is clamp a few yards of translucent fabric on a c-stand arm - instant 4' x 10' light panel. Light it with direct light, or light it with an umbrella, or with diffusion over your light source. I've got loads & loads of pricey "pro" gear, but when I want the big & soft look, nothing beats a HUGE soft source - I'll make a "frame" with two c's and have an 8' x 10' softlight. (A background stand set is great for this). I've even got a big sheet of hot-air balloon fabric for tight corners.

I've had plenty of success over the years with stands & duvateen, & full sheets of black foamcore to control back-spill from soft rigs or bouncing from walls.

All of the above are ways that a newbie (or a pro) can get some soft lighting & spill control. If you've never created an 8' x 12' "softbox", give it a try... pretty luscious light. Big wide area for moving talent around. Start with a "box" of 4 stands & crossbars, then clamp fabric up (duvateen for the sides if needed). Yeah, I'd rather bounce, but at times the big-hanging-fabric deal is pretty fab.
 
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