FS7: UHD Out Via SDI

I

infohou

Well-known member
Hey Folks,

I hope y'all are having a good day so far or did for those elsewhere.

I am trying to do UHD XAVC-I to the XQD and UHD ProRes to the 7Q+. I cannot seem to get the FS7 to send UHD out of either SDI. Turned off the LUT, changed from Recorder mode to Monitor, etc. I am in CineEI/Slog3/Slog3Cine. Not that it should matter, but I have a Nikon(why have we stopped using the name Nikkor?) 70-300 on the FS7 via a Metabones Ultra.

Not possible or I am missing something? I did read the manual which of course jumps one to different pages but I don't see anything I may be doing wrong.

Take it EZ,
Robert
 
Mitch Gross said:
The FS7 only outputs 2K/HD out of the SDI ports. For 4K/UHD you need to use HDMI. You can also get 4K RAW, but that requires the XDCA extension back.

This video may be useful.

http://www.convergent-design.com/su...item/57-odyssey7q-fs7-setup-video-part-1.html
Click to expand...

Thanks Mitch,

As you may recall I have used the 4K via HDMI but as I recall the HDMI is only 8bit. No UHD via SDI is ridiculous and I hope Sony fixes that with the firmware update. I realize what can be done with the back and I did not ask about 4K RAW as I don't have any need for that currently.

I believe I have seen all videos you folks have posted but I will follow the link.

Take it EZ,
Robert
 
infohou said:
No UHD via SDI is ridiculous and I hope Sony fixes that with the firmware update. I realize what can be done with the back and I did not ask about 4K RAW as I don't have any need for that currently.
Click to expand...

My understanding is the camera has always from inception been advertised as only having 1080p via SDI out. It is very likely that the hardware actually won't permit a 4k SDI output, in which case it would not be addressable through a firmware update.

This camera provides a great many cutting edge features for the pricepoint, and as there are three other methods of recording 4k (HDMI,RAW,XAVC) I don't think it's "ridiculous" that an $8,000 camera doesn't have SDI 4k capacity.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion though - so just remember to vote with your wallet. If you need 4k SDI today you could always consider buying an F55 or a Blackmagic URSA - both of those cameras have it.

In any respect - I don't anticipate the Sony PXW-FS7 will ever support 4k SDI.
 
Viddovation said:
My understanding is the camera has always from inception been advertised as only having 1080p via SDI out. It is very likely that the hardware actually won't permit a 4k SDI output, in which case it would not be addressable through a firmware update.
Click to expand...

Perhaps I missed it. Seems like they could use both SDIs if that's what it takes. As I have said in the past, processing power is really cheap these days. There are cellphones that can shoot UHD video. You may be right, they may have really skimped on the processor(s).


Viddovation said:
This camera provides a great many cutting edge features for the pricepoint, and as there are three other methods of recording 4k (HDMI,RAW,XAVC) I don't think it's "ridiculous" that an $8,000 camera doesn't have SDI 4k capacity.
Click to expand...

As you may have noticed, I have been around this forum for months. I am tired of people parroting the features for the price bit. I am aware of that, I own one. If after the firmware update we are talking about a camera that can do DCI 4K internally(10bit?) then it is ridiculous to me for it not to do at least UHD via SDI. Also, don't forget currently the camera can do DCI 4K via HDMI so I would suggest the processing capability is there.

Viddovation said:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion though - so just remember to vote with your wallet. If you need 4k SDI today you could always consider buying an F55 or a Blackmagic URSA - both of those cameras have it.

In any respect - I don't anticipate the Sony PXW-FS7 will ever support 4k SDI.
Click to expand...

If I need 4K today I will rent or buy the XDCA. Like many, I can't afford or justify the F55 and the URSA is not suitable for RNG. I think most of us here are aware of the other options.

Sincerely,
Robert
 
infohou said:
Perhaps I missed it. Seems like they could use both SDIs if that's what it takes. As I have said in the past, processing power is really cheap these days. There are cellphones that can shoot UHD video. You may be right, they may have really skimped on the processor(s).
Click to expand...

My intent wasn't to offend you, but I do believe your economic argument is simplistic. When it comes to integrated circuits and electronics one of the largest driving factors in cost is quantity. Semiconductor raw materials aren't necessarily very expensive, but the process of fabricating them into specific components is highly specialized. Cell phones and other consumer goods are able to offer such great performance for such low prices because of volume production economics. For professional equipment produced in substantially lower numbers there are far fewer buyers to subsidize research, development, and assembly line costs across.

Given that the FS7 is already guilty of undercutting the F5 and F55 on a number of features (look at how many F5 owners have grumbled about wishing they could have had the FS7 and the lower pricepoint), I just don't agree that it's ridiculous for Sony to not offer 4k SDI on this camera.

And if we adopt the attitude that "the gear does X, so it ought to do Y" the manufacturers may choose to simply not give us the X feature to avoid these grumblings in the future.

I'm just amazed we get this much for $8k.
 
Viddovation said:
My intent wasn't to offend you, but I do believe your economic argument is simplistic. When it comes to integrated circuits and electronics one of the largest driving factors in cost is quantity. Semiconductor raw materials aren't necessarily very expensive, but the process of fabricating them into specific components is highly specialized. Cell phones and other consumer goods are able to offer such great performance for such low prices because of volume production economics. For professional equipment produced in substantially lower numbers there are far fewer buyers to subsidize research, development, and assembly line costs across.

Given that the FS7 is already guilty of undercutting the F5 and F55 on a number of features (look at how many F5 owners have grumbled about wishing they could have had the FS7 and the lower pricepoint), I just don't agree that it's ridiculous for Sony to not offer 4k SDI on this camera.

And if we adopt the attitude that "the gear does X, so it ought to do Y" the manufacturers may choose to simply not give us the X feature to avoid these grumblings in the future.

I'm just amazed we get this much for $8k.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the thought, but I am not offended, just annoyed.

As it says in my signature, among other things, I am an IT Consultant. I am fully aware of the economics of semiconductors. It is doubtful that there is much if anything in the way of custom circuits in the FS7 outside of the sensor which as you probably know, is reportedly the same one as the F5. So they have economy of scale as regards the sensor. I would not be surprised to find out that the same sensor is in someone's still camera or industrial camera. Anyway, what can't be bought off the shelf can be programmed via software into a gate array or dsp or something else. Not much need these days for custom ASICs.

By the way, the cellphones benefit from economy of scale also. Even my beloved iPhone 6 has mostly off the shelf parts. Although the folks in Cupertino don't price it that way. Which is why they make most of the profits in the cellphone business.

Even if we get 4K SDI the F5 still offers advantages like PL mount, better codecs, and more rugged construction. According to Sony, every F5/55 that comes to the US is checked. I seriously doubt they do that for the FS7's.

Thanks for the discussion,
Robert
 
For what it's worth, the B&H website advertises 4k over SDI for the FS7. If so, based on two 3G-SDI spigots, I'd expect a max framerate of 30p. But I'll believe it when I see it in-camera.
 
Viddovation said:
For what it's worth, the B&H website advertises 4k over SDI for the FS7. If so, based on two 3G-SDI spigots, I'd expect a max framerate of 30p. But I'll believe it when I see it in-camera.
Click to expand...

Did not remember that, thanks. 23.98 is all I care about. I derive other rates from that. 30p or rather 29.97p would be nice as I can get 59.97 easily if selling to a broadcaster that does 1080i.

Off topic, so excuse me for saying again that the " What framerate is that really?" thing also annoys me. People say 24p when they mean 23.98. It does matter as film and some video really is 24p. Ask the folks with audio syncing issues how much it matters.

Thanks again,
Robert
 
infohou said:
Thanks Mitch,

As you may recall I have used the 4K via HDMI but as I recall the HDMI is only 8bit. No UHD via SDI is ridiculous and I hope Sony fixes that with the firmware update. I realize what can be done with the back and I did not ask about 4K RAW as I don't have any need for that currently.

I believe I have seen all videos you folks have posted but I will follow the link.

Take it EZ,
Robert
Click to expand...
No, the HDMI is in fact 10-bit. From the HDMI port the Odyssey7Q+ can record 4K at 23.98p and UHD at 23.98p, 25p, and 29.97p. If the FS7 could deliver 4K over SDI (which would have to be dual-link, otherwise it would need to be 6G which Sony has never offered as it is not a current SMPTE or EBU spec), then the possible frame rates would be the same in UHD and the true 4K would be able to add the 25p and 29.97p from rates.
 
Mitch Gross said:
No, the HDMI is in fact 10-bit. From the HDMI port the Odyssey7Q+ can record 4K at 23.98p and UHD at 23.98p, 25p, and 29.97p. If the FS7 could deliver 4K over SDI (which would have to be dual-link, otherwise it would need to be 6G which Sony has never offered as it is not a current SMPTE or EBU spec), then the possible frame rates would be the same in UHD and the true 4K would be able to add the 25p and 29.97p from rates.
Click to expand...

Thanks for correcting me. I am so used to HDMI being 8 bit I thought the FS7's was as well.

So problem partially solved. I would prefer the extra solidity of SDI but the HDMI will work if one is careful. As you know, I had to go to "Other" in the Oddy camera selection menu to get DCI 4K and I believe this is true for UHD as well. It would be nice if those settings were available under the FS7 camera option.

Also, you mentioned that CD sends info via email to registered users. I registered my 7+ the last week in January and I have not seen any email from CD. I do check my Junk folder and I admin my email server.

Thanks for keeping us straight,
Robert
 
Hey Folks,

I had this happen to me again. I changed the settings mimicking Mitch's video and I got nothing on the Oddy screen. I rebooted the FS7 and then I got video on the Oddy.

So don't forget to reboot if something doesn't change. Sometimes the FS7 does not say to reboot but you should.

Take it EZ,
Robert
 
infohou said:
Dang, gonna have to compliment you again;-)

Good job. Thought it should be you but it did not sound like the your other videos to me. Better mic?

Y'all be cool,
Robert
Click to expand...
Same mike. I was a little more tired and gravel-voiced. It's a lot different when one doesn't have to show his face in the shot.
 
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