UGH Rode NTG-2 + Tascam DR-100 = quiet. Need preamp help!

I have a choice of pro XLR mics, or consumer 3.5mm mics, preamps, or just plain excellent audio in the camera like on my EX1. So I use what I want based on the situation. There's nothing wrong with using 3.5mm for some things.
 
I own an NTG-2 with a KTEK 110CCR boompole.
Would it make sense to get the Tascam Dr-100 as my audio recorder?
From this thread ad others I've been told the combination will result in low levels.
Is the combo still doable though? Or is it totally unacceptable for narrative use?
 
Not using a preamp like the Sound Devices MixPre is unacceptable for narrative use. The Preamp is the magic ingredient. The mic and recorder are fine.
 
Is it possible someone could post some mic samples of the NTG-2 recorded unto the DR-100? (or direct me to somewhere online that does)
I want to see the resulting levels/noise and see if I could live with it in post, for my own low budget work.
Im not knocking what anyone has alreay said in this thread, just looking at what can be accomplished with a given budget.
 
I keep hearing good things about the juiced link pre-amps. Would one of those combined with a zoom h1, or tascam equivalent with a 3.5mm input, result in as good or better audio than using the zoom h4n or tascan dr-100 directly into the xlr input. On a tight budget I think this would make for a versatile kit as the juicedlink could be used directly on cam if needed, and the little recorder is available as a backup or ambiance recorder. Or combine the two for dual system.
 
The Juicedlink stuff is pretty cool, but there are no limiters. You have to go SoundDevices MixPre for good limiters. Still, the JuicedLink will boost your signal to bive you a better recording into the DR-100. Even better yet using the NTG-3 which is 6db more sensitive - effectively twice as loud. Very good for improving signal to noise ratio.
 
Chadfish said:
I don't see why I'm having to convince anyone that adding a preamplifier will solve the problem.
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I agree with you, but my situation may be a little different. I just came back from an 8 day shoot in Kalimantan, Irian Jaya shooting with a 60D and 7D. With 2 units we shot over 4,000 files so slating and post syncing everything would be impossible. The additional gear and batteries may also introduce problems because we were without electricity for a few days at a time. I also had to handle all my gear alone most of the time with only local help to boom. Also rough terrain, bad weather, shooting in long boats ready to sink, crossing rickety bridges ready to collapse, (My foot went through one) just to name a few, Oh yeah I forgot, mosquitoes as big as horseflies.

What I need is a reasonable solution for these extreme situations to either use a preamp to improve the quality into the camera, or an external recorder (small) that can also be routed into the camera in the case there is no time left to post sync thousands of files.

In addition I also have to manage a small Sachtler tripod, jib, and steadycam unit.
Sometimes, somethings gotta give.
 

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I hear ya rockmore. But a preamp will definitely improve the audio quality of your DSLR. If size is the issue, then a simple Rode VMP and the DSLR will do 'er. If I had the budget I'd get a MixPre-d and use that straight into the DSLR. That would sound real nice.
 
Chadfish said:
I hear ya rockmore. But a preamp will definitely improve the audio quality of your DSLR. If size is the issue, then a simple Rode VMP and the DSLR will do 'er. If I had the budget I'd get a MixPre-d and use that straight into the DSLR. That would sound real nice.
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Thanks Chad, I also did a search and came across your Jucedlink u-tube link. Very informative.
One of the videos showed the difference between converters between the Beachtech and the Mixpre but no mention of what was inside the Jucelink.
How much better is the MixPre going to be over the Jucedlink. I'm also concerned about durability in situations with a lot of humidity. Over here sometimes the rain seems to go up.
Another concern is the mic shotgun vs. super-cardioid for all situations. I also considered a short shotgun because of the slightly wider pattern and more compact travel size. I'm still on a budget as well.
As for the Rode VMP, wouldn't I be better off with a balanced XLR non powered mic considering the balanced signal, toughness of the cables, and that I will have phantom power in my pre-amp.
 
If I'm not mistaken, I think a Shotgun IS a super-cardioid.

I only mentioned the VideoMic Pro as a solution if a compact rig is the most important. Of course for sound quality I would say to use a more pro mic with xlr etc. As far as the JuicedLink stuff goes, it's got nice clean preamps, and it does deliver a mic level signal, which works for DSLR. BUT there are no limiters, and I think it only offers 16db of gain. The MixPre seems more rugged, but I can't speak to humidity on either. But for me the MixPre has limiters on both the input and output. That's big. You can calibrate the MixPre with your camera or recorder to where you virtually can't clip the recording. For uncontrolled situations the limiters will knock down those loud spikes of sound that happen. Also it delivers about 60db of gain, so you can turn down your DSLR audio level, for even less noise. The new -D model has both mic & line level outputs, the MixPre has only line. The -D model can also act as an audio interface through USB, so you can record quality VO for things on your laptop out in the field. It also has digital outs, so you could use it going into the s/pdif of the Tascam DR-680. If I were out in the jungle getting shots wherever I can, I'd have an NTG-3 going into a MixPre-D, and the MixPre-D feeding my camera. I say NTG-3 because it's supposed to be good in moist environments, and it even comes in a metal, water proof tube that seals shut.

Again I can't say anything about very humid environments. Humidity just kills gear - no matter what gear.
 
Chadfish said:
As far as the JuicedLink stuff goes, it's got nice clean preamps
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This probably will be the best way to go for now. The weight of the Mixpre is 2 pounds and the Juceklink weights in a 1 pound. That is a big issue for me. As long as the sound is clean I can work around the lack of a limiter. The other question is if the phantom power is necessary since all the mics I have are powered by AA batteries. The phantom power will suck up a lot more power running the preamp.
What do you think, can I skip the phantom power for this type of location work?
 
Personally I would feed the preamp batteries rather than the mics. The mics lose sensitivity when they are run on battery, and become slightly noisier.
 
Chadfish said:
Personally I would feed the preamp batteries rather than the mics. The mics lose sensitivity when they are run on battery, and become slightly noisier.
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I think you are right and that is the whole point in the preamp to get the sound as noise free as possible.
The only problem is the 9volt battery to run the preamp are not easy to find in remote areas where the AA type cam be found everywhere here.
Maybe a set of rechargeable 9v batteries, which don't last as long as standard ones, but at least I could calculate how many I would need between charges.
 
Chadfish said:
The Preamp is the magic ingredient.
Click to expand...

Now that I see the value of the external preamp to clean up the signal into the DSLR audio recorder I can't understand why anyone would opt for an external recorder first and a preamp second. If you need great audio for a feature project you will need both and slating/post syncing shots is normal in that situation, but for doc work and run and gun shooting the preamp and a good boom mounted mic solves the problem for me. Thanks for the advice Chad
 
Totally. With a preamp you can get audio into anything no matter what kind of mic it is, and it is goig to sound better - especially with Sound Devices stuff and the limiters etc.
 
Chadfish said:
Totally. With a preamp you can get audio into anything no matter what kind of mic it is, and it is goig to sound better - especially with Sound Devices stuff and the limiters etc.
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What ever I said before forget it, I'm convinced now. MixPre-D and Rode NTG-3, Done end of story. I already have plenty of ok mics and half solutions to get by with now, so there is no reason to invest in another sub standard system. Thanks for the persistence, you finally reached me.
 
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I think that is a good decision.

One reason folks don't like the onboard sound of DSLR's is that a lot of them have a non defeatable AGC and that is a problem.

And they are not the greatest recorders in the world. But my experience is that almost all recorders if fed a strong clean signal that essentially eliminates the onboard gain sound pretty good. My old MixPre has fed a tone of different recorders from very high end to very low end and the difference on the low end is huge (high end was really just to compare).
 
Are there any reasonably priced preamps with XLR in and out. The mixPre-D has it but is a bit expensive, and the JuicedLink al have mini-jack out.


So I'm looking for a simple pre-amp with XLR in/out, on a budget of course ;-)




TIA
 
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