UGH Rode NTG-2 + Tascam DR-100 = quiet. Need preamp help!

henryqiu said:
If DR-100 can't get NTG-2 to reach an audio level comfortable with you, then neither MixPre nor DR-680 nor any other similar mixer/recorder will be much help.
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I don't agree. It's not one or the other. Put the DR-100 at 50% to keep the noise down then the MixPre (or any preamp) gain will be added and get him where he needs to be. There is nothing the gain of the MixPre won't help. In fact any amount of added gain will help his situation.
 
Chadfish said:
I don't agree. It's not one or the other. Put the DR-100 at 50% to keep the noise down then the MixPre (or any preamp) gain will be added and get him where he needs to be. There is nothing the gain of the MixPre won't help. In fact any amount of added gain will help his situation.
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I surely agree that any extra amount of gain will help. But the question is how much there can be. Unless I misunderstood, having DR-100 take line out from a MixPre cannot add much gain (if any) to the signal being processed... if that were true, we could sequentially connect N mic preamps (MixPre or not) to get more than the max gain of a single mic preamp, where N > 1, which to me does not seem right.
 
I think the difference is that with the mixpre you get clean gain, where the dr-100 has cheaper, noisier pres. At line level on the dr the gain is likely only reduced by 20 db. So add the 60 db of clean mixpre gain and you have plenty of signal for recording. People are only having issues when they record to these consumer recorders with the mic straight in. I don't see why I'm having to convince anyone that adding a preamplifier will solve the problem. The pros use preamps even with awesome recorders. Adding a preamplifier to a consumer recorder will only help the situation. Even with a more sensitive mic it's not going to be optimal. Try it for yourself, and you'll know it empirically.
 
i remember reading about using the RODE D-Power with the NTG-2 and an external recorder like the H4n or the DR-100

If you use a recorder with phantom power (like H4n od Tascam DR100) the Rode D-Power plug can power up your microphone - It gives you 20db more power, not only with dynamic microphones (I use it with a sennheiser ME80+K3U. I don´t own a juiced link, so I can´t compare these amplifiers. The noise floor sound ok for me, costs about 70 EUR.

http://www.rodemic.com/accessory.php?product=DPower_Plug


I haven't personally used it but it's another option to check out
 
The pros use preamps even with awesome recorders. Adding a preamplifier to a consumer recorder will only help the situation.
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Part of the reason the old vintage pres go for so much money is because they do indeed have a lot of clean gain. I've seen single channels pulled from old Neve and API consoles go for upwards of $2,000. Some of the RCA units like the OP-6 go for a quite a bit too. All that gain was really needed with the old ribbon mics and the like that were used in the old days because those mics didn't have much output to them.

I'm not one to down newer bargain priced equipment because even inexpensive mixers sound darn good today, but they usually don't have much gain on the pres because the manufatcurers assume most people are going to be using modern condenser mics and so forth which already have a strong output signal. But if you want to use something like an old ribbon mic, the newer consoles don't cut it. I just sold an RCA BK-11 a few months ago, and I can tell you firsthand that none of my three modern mixers had enough gain on the pres for it really. I always had them pushed nearly all the way up and had to apply some noise reduction in post. My budget wouldn't allow for buying a vintage preamp just for one mic, so I made do with what I had.

Of course there are modern manufacturers who make mixers with plenty of gain like the old ones, but they tend to go for as much as the vintage consoles. At any rate, just about any mixer is going to have more gain than what you find in these little handheld recorders like the Zoom units. I'm not knocking them. They're fine for certain situations. But if you need a lot of gain for a low output mic, they won't help you much.
 
Chadfish said:
Um, I'd search "NTG-2 vs AT897" before you did that. The NTG-2 is the preferred mic by and large. The 897 is an Electret condenser with -41dB sensitivity. The NTG-2 is a true concenser at -36 sensitivity. So you would be getting a less sensitive mic that sounds worse.
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I didn't say that the AT-897 sounded better than a NTG-2. I do not have a NTG-2. I do have a AT-897 (and NTG-3) and a DR-100 What I did say is that the AT-897 works within the gain capabilities of the DR-100 and will deliver audio at a reasonable level without a mixer. This is true.

Grant
 
ggrantly said:
I didn't say that the AT-897 sounded better than a NTG-2. I do not have a NTG-2. I do have a AT-897 (and NTG-3) and a DR-100 What I did say is that the AT-897 works within the gain capabilities of the DR-100 and will deliver audio at a reasonable level without a mixer. This is true.

Grant
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Fair enough. My point is that the NTG-2 is more sensitive, so if the AT897 works, the NTG-2 will work better. If the OP isn't getting a good level with a mic that is more sensitive than the mic you, Grant, are happy with, then maybe it's not the mic that's the problem here. Maybe the OP is holding the mic too far away? Hard to tell.
 
Chadfish said:
Fair enough. My point is that the NTG-2 is more sensitive, so if the AT897 works, the NTG-2 will work better. If the OP isn't getting a good level with a mic that is more sensitive than the mic you, Grant, are happy with, then maybe it's not the mic that's the problem here. Maybe the OP is holding the mic too far away? Hard to tell.
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I can't explain that according to the specs. Or....maybe the specs are a bunch of hooey.

Grant
 
I searched "sensitivity" along with each mic's model. The specs on B&H and the Rode sites didn't list the sensitivity.
 
There is little doubt that the reviews find the NTG-2 to be a "better" mic than the AT-897. Rode claims more sensitivity. I don't own one, but the NTG-2 has been widely reported to underperform with the Zoom recorders. The DR-100 may be slightly better than the Zooms, but probably not much. I like it much better than my original H4 more for the better controls, power options and build quality.

The AT-897 was fairly popular inexpensive mic before the NTG-2, and is still a decent option at $60 less. You hear no complaints about the performance of the AT-897 with regard to gain in the cheapo recorders. The only thing I know; the AT-897 works ok with a DR-100 from a gain perspective, regardless of the stated sensitivity of each mic.

What more can I say?

Grant
 
Well I may have to go get my buddie's 897 and shoot it out against my NTG-2! I can say no more myself. The variable we can't control is the user. Who knows how badly people are at mic technique. I know a lot of people think "shotgun" means you can stand further away from the source.
 
Excellent! Does anyone have experience with another amp besides the SD? I found a couple from Whirlwind, but I have never heard of them... the MD-1 to be exact
 
You might want to check out the phantom power voltage...18v ?? Most mics have a voltage range, but that does seem like an odd number. Maybe others will know if that is typically enough. Also the weight at 2lbs seems pretty well.....heavy/

Grant
 
There is JuicedLink. If you have the NTG-2 (I think you said you already had it) you could get an adapter to go from XLR (vack of the mic) to 3.5mm. THEN you could use the JuicedLink DS214 for 144.00. http://www.juicedlink.com/audio-preamps-mixers-etc-c-66/ds214 It outputs a 3.5mm at mic level. That is not the best solution, but the cheapest I know of to get some gain.

But the CX231 is 299.00 http://www.juicedlink.com/audio-preamps-mixers-etc-c-66/jl-cx231 and uses XLR, and outputs 3.5mm at line level.

Those are the cheapest preamp solutions (I know of) to get some gain that is clean. There may be much better solutions out there. It's preferred that you use phantom power to run the mics too (rather than battery) as it sounds better with Phantom.
 
Chadfish, Im going to avoid the inferior 1/8" connector at all costs. I'll wait and get the sound devices, the point of this thread was to see of the combination of the SD Pre and the NTG-2 would work out, and from what I can gather... it will
 
If you can wait a bit, SD just updated the mixpre with some features that make it closer to being a mixer. This might also help drive the used market down a bit for mixpres if cost is driving your boat.

Grant
 
dantakesphotos said:
Chadfish, Im going to avoid the inferior 1/8" connector at all costs. I'll wait and get the sound devices, the point of this thread was to see of the combination of the SD Pre and the NTG-2 would work out, and from what I can gather... it will
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I hear ya! With all these threads I forget that some people actually will hold out for the quality gear. IMO nobody should be just plugging a mic into an H4N or DR-100 and saying that they are doing audio for film - or anything. You simply NEED the preamp to cover the bases for level, limiters, and a good phantom. But people will fight tooth and nail, believing there is a cheaper way to sneak by.
 
Chadfish, Im going to avoid the inferior 1/8" connector at all costs.
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You might be surprised. I remember a soundcard shootout several years ago where some of the cards with 1/8" mini connectors were actually carrying the applied voltage better than some of the cards with 1/4" connectors. I'm not sure why. It might have been anything from better solder connections to purer metals being used. Whether 1/8" or 1/4", you're still only carrying 5 or 10 volts either way, and you carry that on a strand of hair! I wouldn't let 1/8" connectors stop me if a unit had all the features I needed at a good price.
 
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