FS7: Two Q's About Bert LUT and LC709A

Joshua Milligan

Joshua Milligan

Well-known member
Have any users been using the Bert LUT for both the FS7 and the A7SII? I typically shoot S-Log3, S-Gamut3.Cine on the FS7, A7SII and A6300, using Sony's LC709A LUT and have gotten pretty good results with all three cameras. I have been thinking about trying out the Bert LUT since so many of you have praised it, but I was curious if it would work for all three cameras I just mentioned or not. I like that I can cut well with LC709A for multi-cam shoots and would love to have similar results with the Bert LUT.

Also, while I'm at it, I have noticed that the LC709A LUT that was pre-packaged with Catalyst Browse appears to be different than the one I'm using in Premiere. Catalyst Browse already has the LUT in the program, but I had to find LC709A online for Premiere and after loading it into Premiere I can see a difference in color between the two programs. When viewing the same shot in both Catalyst Browse and in Premiere with nothing but the LC709A LUT applied, the shot in Premiere has more red and sometimes a bit more saturation and contrast than the same shot viewed in Catalyst Browse. Did I perhaps get a bad copy of LC709A online, or is it something to do with the two programs? Thanks in advance!
 
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To help with my second question, here are two screen grabs of the same shot, both with LC709A applied only and no other adjustments made. The first shot is from Catalyst Browse and the second shot is from Premiere. You can clearly see that using LC709A in Catalyst Browse gave this shot more red than using the same LUT in Premiere. This is what I don't understand. Why aren't they the same?

Catalyst Browse.jpg

Premiere Pro.jpg
 
Probably some setting in catalyst thats showing the diffrence. Check and see setting in catalyst
 
Well - why would you eveb expect different software to give exactly the same results? I also find Rec709 LUT in Browse to give different colors/levels than those I get using the very same Browse's own LUT in Resolve (BTW, its use in Resolve gives much lower quality output; in general I don't like any of the many LUTs I tried in that program which was the main reason for switching to RCM).

Piotr
 
I agree it's not a very good app (at least it's free :)) - but I must say it transforms my S-gamut3.Cine/Slog-3 footage into Rec709 in the most pleasing (color-wise) way of all apps using the very same LUT, including Resolve. But that's just me :)

Piotr
 
Well Resolve is free too, so there's just no excuse for anyone shooting S-LOG or RAW not to be handling it properly in post. Of course footage is going to look like crap in a utility program that is designed for quick viewing and file management.
 
Sure Doug - I just find using RCM a better workflow than LUTs, especially in HDR10 grading. YMMV.

Cheers

Piotr

PS. Plus, I have bought the Studio version :)
 
Joshua Milligan said:
Have any users been using the Bert LUT for both the FS7 and the A7SII? I typically shoot S-Log3, S-Gamut3.Cine on the FS7, A7SII and A6300, using Sony's LC709A LUT and have gotten pretty good results with all three cameras. I have been thinking about trying out the Bert LUT since so many of you have praised it, but I was curious if it would work for all three cameras I just mentioned or not. I like that I can cut well with LC709A for multi-cam shoots and would love to have similar results with the Bert LUT.

Also, while I'm at it, I have noticed that the LC709A LUT that was pre-packaged with Catalyst Browse appears to be different than the one I'm using in Premiere. Catalyst Browse already has the LUT in the program, but I had to find LC709A online for Premiere and after loading it into Premiere I can see a difference in color between the two programs. When viewing the same shot in both Catalyst Browse and in Premiere with nothing but the LC709A LUT applied, the shot in Premiere has more red and sometimes a bit more saturation and contrast than the same shot viewed in Catalyst Browse. Did I perhaps get a bad copy of LC709A online, or is it something to do with the two programs? Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

There's a few "gotcha's" in Catalyst Browse/Prepare you have to watch out for when playing with clips. Mainly that is sometimes if you unlock the lock next to source, change a setting there and later change it back, then in combination apply a "look" (LC709, LC709A, etc..) the color is not completely set to what it should be. This is hard to explain, but I know I experienced this many times so this COULD be the issue you experience not seeing the same results between Premiere and CB. Because you definitely should.

If you're interested in playing with an enhanced LUT like Bert's LUT, this weekend only, as part of the BLACK FRIDAY shopping craze, I'm giving away free downloads of my Super Magenta Killer 3D LUT pack (normally a whopping $10) - which aside from emulating the ARRI Alexa look additionally comes with 4 3DLUTs - each one progressively increasing skin tone and killing magenta hues. It's been useful for some productions who grade an image starting with a base of LC709A but then end up with pink lipstick looking lips or hands, or just any reason you end up with magenta cast footage. (glass, ND filter, etc.) It's been used on everything from network produced TV shows, documentaries to corporate interviews.

Free free to check it out:

http://www.hingsberg.com/index.php/...killer-3dlut-pack-free-black-weekend-special/

 
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Doug, I don't use resolve because I've never been able to successfully round trip an XML edit from Premiere to Resolve to color. The only way I've ever been able to complete a project using Resolve to color is to first make my edit in Premiere, then write down the clips I used and load them up in Resolve to color them. Then I would export those colored clips from Resolve and replace the raw clips in Premiere with the now colored clips from Resolve. And, if I later change my mind on a way a colored a clip or two, I now have to re-color that clip in Resolve, reexport it once more and finally go back to Premiere and replace the old clip with the new one again. That's just not realistic for me to do for each and every project. It makes coloring a nightmare rather than something I enjoy. I can't color all of my footage before I ever go to Premiere because I shoot a ton of footage (doc shoots) and am not going to use even half of what I shot. Lastly, I usually slow down footage in post and use mixed frame rates for my shoots, so round tripping has just never been successful for me. I wish it was. If so, I'd use Resolve to color everything as it's an excellent program. But having to write clips down for my entire project and then go find them in Resolve to color them is just ridiculous. If you have a better way to do this, then I'm all ears. But that's been my experience.

Starcentral, I do know of the lock button you are talking about it Catalyst Browse and I checked it just yesterday. Everything looks set right to me! And thanks for the link to your 3D LUT pack! I will definitely take you up on your Black Friday offer. I appreciate it!

I really only use Catalyst Browse to view my footage with LUTs on after each day of my shoots just so I can get a feel for how things are turning out, but the fact that some shots are noticeably different than when using the same LUT for my actual edit is frustrating.
 
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Joshua I can teach you the proper way of round tripping, and in a manner that still let's you adjust / trim clip lengths later back in your edit software. [**Edited**]

About the lock in CB, what I was trying to say is that if you change any setting there and put it back, the software does not always set it accordingly. This is huge bug I identified in previous versions to Sony, and I have no idea if they fixed it, as I haven't used CB in ages. But thought I would mention this bug.
 
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Joshua Milligan said:
But having to write clips down for my entire project and then go find them in Resolve to color them is just ridiculous. If you have a better way to do this, then I'm all ears. But that's been my experience.
Click to expand...

You're right, it would be absolutely crazy to do it that way. And that's why you should spend a few minutes of your time troubleshooting your workflow to figure out why you can't round-trip successfully like everyone else. I have no idea what you are doing wrong, but I round-trip between Premiere and Resolve all the time. Are you exporting your sequence from Premiere as a FCP XML? That's the option to choose even if you are not using FCP.
 
I tend to make a flat sequence (or as flat as possible) duplicate in Premiere with any speed ramps and resizes and effects removed and export that xml so I can grade clips with the same filename and durations as used in my master sequence which I can then just relink in premiere and have my effects and resizes applied automatically.
 
Hey Doug. That's exactly what I do. I've spent hours upon hours trying to figure out what is wrong, but I can't figure it out. I have tried troubleshooting, but I eventually just gave up on it. When I import the FCP XML into Resolve I always have error messages on my clips and the footage often times that does make it to Resolve will be timed wrong. In other words, of the shots that don't get error messages, those shot will play at different points in the clip on Resolve's timeline than they will on my project in Premiere. If I have a 45 second clip and my edit point in Premiere is seconds 23-38, in Resolve it might show seconds 4-19. It's beyond frustrating.
 
Almost certainly resolve has interpreted the timebase of your clip differently from how you/Premiere has and you might want to adjust that manually
 
check which clips it is not giving you the right clip for and check its attributes in premiere and in resolve.

If it's happening for all your clips then you can group them all and modify them.

Don't have it in front of me to talk you through it.
 
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