Total noob, but has read up a bit...

legrevedotcom

legrevedotcom

Veteran
Heya... I've been lurking around this forum for a while, trying to learn a bit about sound.

Basically I'm a one man orchestra, that likes to own... (yep, I read the 101 ;) ), and now I'm wanting to expand a bit. That's why I thought it was time to get some input from you guys who seem to know quite a bit what works and what's a definite nono.

First the premise:
- The commercial area: I'll be looking into expanding my photography to covering small interviews as well as projects such as indie docus and corporate videos as well as small commercials and social events. ie, small paying customers.

- The experimental area: I've always wanted to try out a bit of filming, and I don't mind doing it indie style here as well. I reckon this would be more of a self realization thing as well as trying to help some aspiring people getting something to move on with.

My wantings are ambitious and probably tainted with cluelessness... but here goes.

The following list is comprised after having lurked around different forums and watching some demos on YT and Vimeo:

- Rode NTG-3 kit, including boom pole, blimp, deadcat and cable.

- Sony UWP-v6 (with the option to make the NTG-3 wireless as well)

- Additional transmitter(?) for when shooting with 2 uni lav mics.

- 2 uni lav mics

- Rode Videomic Pro (for social events shouldermounted)

- DT454 for preamping the mics.

- Fostex FR-2LE (or the DC203 when it arrives) for recording.

- Sennheiser HD-25-1 for monitoring.

My plan was to have a family member to help with the sound when needed or otherwise find an aspiring sound guy who wants to be a part of small things like this.

My budget is limited, I reckon the above setup is what I can manage financially. It roughly amounts to $5.500 in total. Are there any changes I definitely should make before moving on to the next stage? I stress once again... I can't afford the lovely $2000 mics etc, so... :)

Thanks for reading this wall of text.

Kindly
Torben
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First, kudos for doing some research first!

Also, what camera are you using? That can make a huge difference, though I'm assuming by the inclusion of the DT454 that you're shooting on a DSLR. Which one?

legrevedotcom said:
- Additional transmitter(?) for when shooting with 2 uni lav mics.
Click to expand...

Go back to "The $500 Wireless Question". In order to use a second transmitter, you must have a second receiver.

You've got a decent kit, though there may be some changes that will pop up in this discussion. I'm not sure you need the DT454, but again I don't know what camera you're using. That money may be better spent on a MixPre-D, which can feed the FR-2LE. It can also feed the camera at the same time, if need be. It's a little more expensive ($750), but worth the investment.

And as for the wireless system with the plug-on transmitter... wireless boom can be tricky. is this an absolute necessity?

Within your stated $5500, which isn't a bad starting place, you might consider:

- RøDE NTG-3 Kit
- Hypercardioid setup (mic, Rycote suspension, Baby Ball Gag)
- FR-2LE
- Sennheiser G3 system (x2)
- Extra lavalier mics (x2... look at the RøDE lav, is it has interchangeable connectors making it useful both with the transmitters and as hardline XLR)
- Headphones
- MixPre-D
- VideoMic Pro
- Audio gear bag

That will bring you in at around $5k, leaving some money for extra cables and CF cards such, as well as a big Pelican case to store it all.
 
Thanks for doing a thorough reply :) I came across a lot of your posts and you seem to hold high regards in the sound department.
You are correct that I'm shooting with a dslr. I have the Canon 5D mk II. I've been using it for a few music video jobs (ie, no sound worries ;) ), but only just about to start on the corporate thing.

I guess I read too fast during the wireless part xD must have been wishful thinking that the included receiver could be used with two transmitters.
Originally, being burdened by budget, I was looking at the JL preamp... in fact the first one was CX231 but then someone recommended that I moved up to the DT454 and oh well.
The Mix Pre-D looks very nice. Have I understood it correctly that I could actually also use this to record directly into my mac if doing sound in a studio? That would be a huge plus... But I can't seem to find any european dealers with prices on this yet :(

You ask if the wireless boom is absolutely necessary, and no, it is not. I still have to learn to shed off those "nice to have" things :)
The Røde lavs look nice and the fact that I can get them from my (at the moment) preferred webshop is also nice.

The biggest problem for me is that I'm dealing with European prices, and even if I bought some of these items from the states, I would be slammed with a bag of customs fees and tax. Sometimes I wonder if it would be easier just flying to the states with an empty suitcase... Without the MixPre-D I'm close to the 6k mark :O and that's without bags, pelicase, cables and cards.

If I was to start with my one-man show, which items would be the preferred to acquire first? My intuition tells me that I should get the Røde kit, the MixPre-D and the VideoMic Pro? And then simply settle for recording straight to the camera through the Mix until I can afford the rest? Or would I get more from acquiring the G3 first? Seems to me that both the Sennheiser and the NTG-3 are pretty versatile products with each their bonus.
I reckon the hyper setup would be the last to acquire?

Thanks again

Torben
 
With the Rode NTG-3 in your kit, why bother with the VideoMic Pro? You already have a professional-grade shotgun in your kit, why add a redundent bargain basement consumer shotgun as well? The only advantage the VMP offers is that it is battery powered but there are better ways to resolve that issue.
 
True, I just thought that it would be a lighter set to use for jobs where I don't need more than the VMP. I guess I would have to bring the MixPre-D when shotgunning the NTG-3?

Got in contact with a Danish dealer of the MixPre-D, it will be available for around $1000 here. (again... damn taxes and so on :( ) at the same time he noted that the old version without digital has been lowered to the price of $600.
 
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Steve House said:
With the Rode NTG-3 in your kit, why bother with the VideoMic Pro? You already have a professional-grade shotgun in your kit, why add a redundent bargain basement consumer shotgun as well? The only advantage the VMP offers is that it is battery powered but there are better ways to resolve that issue.
Click to expand...

I keep a VMP on my camera, even though I have a full sound kit with NTG-3 and external recorder. It gives me much clearer reference audio for syncing in post. That said, it isn't a necessity if there's a sound kit running.

Of course, with the MixPre-D, there's a mic-level output (TA3) designed specifically for feeding DSLR inputs. Without Magic Lantern, recording to your camera is going to be useless (except for reference). Even if you're running Magic Lantern on your 5D, I'd recommend second-system audio just because you'll get a cleaner recording every time.

And yes, you can use the USB out on the MixPre-D to record directly to your computer. The original MixPre is a fine piece of gear, though it is missing a few things that were added for the "D" version. It's got a 7-segment LED meter, as opposed to the hi-rez meter on the D that is similar to the meters found on SD's high-end mixers (302, 442, 552). The mic-out is a huge plus in the DSLR world. The AES digital output is something you may not find need for anytime soon.

As for what would be bare-bones essentials at this point, if you need to triage: shotgun kit, MixPre, recorder, headphones, hypercardioid kit if you can swing it. Wireless can come later. And a bag and Pelican case are always a good idea.
 
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Ok, I understand. Would it be foolish to get the DT454 from JL, considering the MixPre-D isn't on the market yet, or should I invest in the old version of the MixPre? Waiting till august / september is a long wait for a preamp :o

Also final question, hehe. Could you lend me some hints to which Peli model would fit the "triage" kit... I'm figuring that getting foam instead of walls would be best, to minimize rummaging during transport? Would be optimal if it could fit all the items in it and I could settle for using the bag for my slider and microphone stand/boom.

The Peli Case 1650 looks pretty roomy, could probably even hold my laptop if configured correctly.
 
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The MixPre-D is on the market. I've had mine for a couple weeks now. Is it just that they're delayed getting to your patch of the globe? You're most likely going to be okay with the original MixPre, though it doesn't offer the output for your camera. If you go with the DT454, you're relegating yourself to in-camera recording which will put limits on what you can and cannot do. Also, the AGC disabler isn't very reliable as far as end results (not a fault of the product, but of the concept and how it is implemented). If you're going to go with a box for your camera, I'd say you might be better off adding Magic Lantern and avoiding the JuicedLink's AGC disabler altogether.

A note about the original MixPre vs. the new "D": One of the major upgrades in the "D" model is selectable impedance on both input and output. The original MixPre allowed only mic-level in, and only line-level out. With the MixPre-D, both XLR ins and outs are selectable mic/line. If you get the original MixPre, and hope to use it to send signal to your camera, you're going to have to have a padded cable.

One other thing to consider: the pre-amps in the FR-2LE aren't too shabby. You could probably get by for now recording your NTG-3 directly into the FR-2LE, then get the MixPre-D when it's available in your town.

Storage: The Pelican 1650 is what I use to store my kit. I actually pulled out all the pick-and-pluck foam, leaving only the outer edges, and I'm able to pack a full ENG kit in there.
 
Juicedlink and SoundDevices aren't in the same class, quality-wise, but the JL may serve you well enough until the Pre-D comes out. With any luck you can sell the JL box for most of what you paid for it.
 
So I finally managed to work out the economy in all of this. I have manage to finance the following for starters:

- Fostex FR-2LE
- MixPre-D
- Sennheiser G3 wireless kit
- NTG-3 kit with boom, deadcat and shockmount
- Rode lav
- Sennheiser HD25-1
- Rode Stereo video mic for ambient recording.
- 2 cf cards (2 x 8gb should be fine shouldn't it)

Rest will go towards photo upgrade :)

But with these I should be covered for starters right? I guess in time I can always switch to the fostex dc-r302 if it turns out to be awesome.
 
legrevedotcom said:
So I finally managed to work out the economy in all of this. I have manage to finance the following for starters:

- Fostex FR-2LE
- MixPre-D
- Sennheiser G3 wireless kit
- NTG-3 kit with boom, deadcat and shockmount
- Rode lav
- Sennheiser HD25-1
- Rode Stereo video mic for ambient recording.
- 2 cf cards (2 x 8gb should be fine shouldn't it)

Rest will go towards photo upgrade :)

But with these I should be covered for starters right? I guess in time I can always switch to the fostex dc-r302 if it turns out to be awesome.
Click to expand...

Quite a nice value-for-money kit.

I think, personally, I would go for the Rycote S-series windshield kit rather than the Røde one - it's lighter, cheaper and has a better shockmount.

I would not go for the stereo videomic. as you should never put a stereo mic. on a camera - I would get the Røde NT-4 instead and use it off-camera. Beyer and AT also make inexpensive stereo mics - the Beyer and AT will probably fit the same Rycote S-series windshield that you use for the gun mic.

For the CF cards, make sure you get SanDisk and don't buy cheap.
 
Thanks for further input. The only reason why I decided was that the NTG3 kit was that it was straight forward ordering it.
I'll take your advice on the NT4 and work it into the budget.

Regarding the CF cards i was indeed looking at the Sandisk. I forgot to ask if speed matters? The ones I was looking at is the Extreme 60mb/s
 
Alex H. said:
. Also, the AGC disabler isn't very reliable as far as end results (not a fault of the product, but of the concept and how it is implemented). If you're going to go with a box for your camera, I'd say you might be better off adding Magic Lantern and avoiding the JuicedLink's AGC disabler altogether.
Click to expand...

Actually the OP said he was using the 5D. Assuming he has done the firmware upgrade from Cannon (if he hasn't he should) the AGC can be disabled in the menu. That was added to the firmware six months or so ago maybe longer - time flies when your distracted.
 
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