GH5 Took a dive into GH5s despite S1H availability

[lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com]

After spending weeks researching and reading on GH5s vs S1H, I finally decided to go with the GH5s despite the newer S1H. As of now, the S1H costs about 2x on everything. The body, L lenses are the two most expensive items. The most missed feature is the flicker less time-lapse function that on the the S1 series has. But the 2x costs and heavier lenses are major no-no for me. I can live with 12-stop of V-Log L. There are so much more useful lens selection at very affordable prices on M4/3 format.

For me the main purpose of the GH5s is to supplement the big and heavy Varicam 35 & its PL lenses. So far footage intercut fairly close to each other with the Panasonic Lumix G 10-25/1.7. Boy, I can get 10-20x more shots with the GH5s than with the big Varicam 35 & LT series per day. Super light and high mobility. So much freedom with the Ronin SC and the $500 Laowa 7.5/2 fixed lens.

 

[estarkey7]

I have them both.

The GH5S certainly is a fantastic camera. The punch that it packs in such a small package in my opinion, is unrivaled. With that said, you can only imagine how great the S1H is if you imagined that the GH5 and the BMPCC6K had an oversized full frame baby!

Organic footage with minimal noise reduction in V-Log creates stunning footage with dynamic range that goes on for days. It's a pleasure to shoot them both side by side, and they are very easy to match when not pushing the GH5S over ISO 2500.

 

[jdv]

As of now, the S1H costs about 2x on everything. The body, L lenses are the two most expensive items.

Yeah, it's too rich for my blood too.

The other huge difference as that for the GH5/s, you can adapt nearly every lens ever made for it. From security cam lens to full frame and everything in between. Contrast that with the S1/S1H which has exactly 40 lenses total (well, at least according to B&H), some of which aren't actually on the market yet.

By my count, there are exactly five L mount zoom lens available to shoot with as of this minute.

Given the twin forces of ever shrinking sales in the camera industry as a whole, plus the premium pricing on full frame glass, I wouldn't expect those numbers to change a whole a lot. Another potential issue for the chances of a lot more lenses down the line is the popularity of the S1/S1H - as in, are they moving off the shelves in high enough numbers to get Panasonic and all the 3rd party manufacturers to justify widening the existing lineup, or will we merely see a couple of more lenses a year.

Obviously, only time will tell but it does give me a bit of a pause before jumping in feet first and selling off all my MFT gear (which I'd have to do to get the S1).

One last bit issue: if MFT does truly die - IE no GH6 or Oly EM1 MIII or BMPCM II - then we would, ultimately, have little choice but to adapt full frame for all the latest tech (at least if you wanted to stick with Panasonic for hybrids).

 

[Bassman2003]

I am pondering this situation myself. Canon stills shooter and GH5 for video. I could move my stills world to the S-series and keep the GH5 (and probably get the GH6 when it appears). I would have a nice kit (S1, S1H & GH) but I would need to embrace adapters with Canon lenses for the FF. I am not crazy about adapters but it would let some time pass until more lenses come out.

I am also locked into Canon, Sigma or Olympus lenses because I want the zoom to turn the "video" direction. So I am glad to see sigma making a native 24-70 f2.8 for the L mount. Who knows how much longer it will take for more to appear.

As far as the S1, S1H vs the GH5s - I am excited about the S1H and might pay up for it, but $2,000 more than the S1 makes one pause. My only drawback is the weight of the S-series for handheld gimbal work. The GH5 is about as heavy as I want to go! So at least one GH body will be in the kit.

 

[filmguy123]

GH5S is a wonderful camera. Huge fan. IQ is better than the GH5. Low light is great, UI is great. If you can live without the improvements to IQ that the S1 series brings, and without IBIS, then it's a very cost effective approach in a lighter overall package.

To me, the S1 series was more about combining the feature set of GH5 + GH5S. I got way less use for my workflow from the GH5s due to no IBIS. For me it was really that simple. The S1/S1H lowlight, IQ, DR improvements are all icing. Wonderful, wonderful icing - it really is a noteworthy step up. (for you, that may or may not matter for what you can bill, though). But the main thing was workflow.

Outside of the breadth of native glass available, I don't think the MFT has much of a lens advantage over the S1 series. Most any glass you will adapt to MFT will be APS-C or FF (so, larger than M43 sensor). The L mount is similar flange distance, you can adapt all the same glass to the S1/S1H. Including APS-C as there is a great S35 sensor mode in the camera, and I do this regularly. What I've seen is most users adapt glass to the GHx series and select a couple of native lenses to keep in the bag. That has been my approach to L mount as well - I am running all adapted glass, with just 1 native L lens for those scenarios where its helpful.

Keep in mind while the S1 series is heavier, you can adapt lighter glass to it which keeps the weight very reasonable. Leica M series glass and some slightly older glass all make for a very light package.

$4k for the S1H body is a hard pill to swallow but keep in mind 4k60p 10-bit internal. If that doesn't matter, the S1 can be had for a smokin price. Don't write that off. S1H's Dual ISO is nice but not mission critical, and it's not that hard to live with shutter speed instead of shutter angle, and the few other misc. missing UI features. Do your homework on what it's missing out, but I will say it's a fantastic tool for a really great price and its drawbacks are totally workable. I sold my S1 with vlog key for $1650... that is a ridiculously low price for what the tool offers, and I've seen plenty of other deals on the S1 new that are great.

 

[jdv]

From the videos I've seen on youtube, the S1 seems to have dual ISO as well....

Interesting about the compatability - what lenses are you using?

 

[Shirozina]

From the videos I've seen on youtube, the S1 seems to have dual ISO as
Interesting about the compatability - what lenses are you using?

I have the S1 - really struggling to see the advantages of the S1h to be honest. I’ve sold most of my M43 glass and already have a lot of EF glass so the transition to full frame was cheap and easy ( just the S1 and the sigma MC-21) Also lots of cheap used S1’s on the market now. Still kept my GH5 + 12-100 as a ‘ camcorder’ but the S1 pairs well with my BMPCC 4K and speedbooster sharing EF lenses. Yes the S1 seems to have a dual ISO and it’s credibly a ‘ low light monster’ possibly even better than my old Sony A7s. V-Log is totally sorted unlike the V-Log L on the GH5/s.
It’s a heavy beast though but it helps the IBS somewhat.

 

[estarkey7]

One thing for certain, the S1H with the 24-105 f/4 flying on the Ronin-S with the Ninja V attached is freaking ridiculously heavy! Just look at this setup compared to my GH5S with a battery grip!

 

[Drew Ott]

What is the benefit of "flicker-less timelapse"? That's easy to achieve in post. I bought an AE plugin 10 years ago that takes out time-lapse flicker, and I'm pretty sure this technology is built into NLEs these days.

 

[filmguy123]

JDV - I’m running a set of Zeiss Milvus primes, as well as Sigma 18-35, Canon 17-55, 70-200. But mostly Milvus primes. Might add the Tokina 11-20.

The S1H tempts users by adding some very nice quality of life features that are software based. For the most part, you buy the S1H for internal 4k60p 10-bit (instead of an external recorder). If that’s not your jam and you don’t have to have a swivel screen, it makes almost no sense to spend so much extra for some UI additions, as welcome as they are.

I would not run an S1H with kit lens on a gimbal, but I’d consider it with a lightweight lens. Maybe the Canon EF pancake lens set to S35 mode. Maybe a vintage lens adapted. But, I personally don’t do that. I use my GH5S for gimbal work.

 

[jdv]

JDV - I’m running a set of Zeiss Milvus primes, as well as Sigma 18-35, Canon 17-55, 70-200. But mostly Milvus primes. Might add the Tokina 11-20.

Very nice! How's the Sigma working out for you?

 

[filmguy123]

The sigma lens is excellent and should be in everyone’s bag.

 

[lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com]

The real benefit is not needing to having to use GBT Timelapse or other 3rd party plug-in to smooth out the fluctuating luminance as the clouds move into the scenes.. Time saver in post but but 2x more on the body & lens for the S1H system may not be at all the great advantage if it's not used heavily.

What is the benefit of "flicker-less timelapse"? That's easy to achieve in post. I bought an AE plugin 10 years ago that takes out time-lapse flicker, and I'm pretty sure this technology is built into NLEs these days.

 

[lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com]

Just spent a day learning the GH5s. The only thing I noticed is that it has a sharp look for dark night and full sunny days. I'm used to the Varicam 35/HS/LT series. It has a organic look that's uniquely from the Varicam series. It may be wishful thinking that Panasonic will put 100% of their Varicam series secret sauce look into the GH5S. The V-LOG L colors have similar colorimetry but the distinctive look of the camera just can't be matched yet.

So far straight out of the default V LOG L setting on the GH5s, it simply has a crisper and more digital look than the Varicam 35/LT. Shooting with the P. Lumix 10-25/1.7 lens. That lens is quite sharp at virtually all zoom ranges and from f/1.7 to 8. I have full confident shooting with that lens and not worrying about quality. I'm looking into soften the GH5S and put a slight blur or glow to the video to see if it'll help.

But for $1.7K for a new GH5S body, I'm not complaining. It costs the same as a new Express P2 512 Gb B-series card for the Varicam. Prices are way off from the GH to Varicam series. I bought 2 Amplim 256 SDXC UHS-II V60 card for about $360. Worked fine w/ GH5s@ALL-Intra 400 mode for far. Recorded non-stop for 1 hour and no buffering issues. Getting about 1h24m per card. 2h48m total. But crossing my fingers that data will be reliable after couple years of usage.

 

[estarkey7]

Just spent a day learning the GH5s. The only thing I noticed is that it has a sharp look for dark night and full sunny days. I'm used to the Varicam 35/HS/LT series. It has a organic look that's uniquely from the Varicam series. It may be wishful thinking that Panasonic will put 100% of their Varicam series secret sauce look into the GH5S. The V-LOG L colors have similar colorimetry but the distinctive look of the camera just can't be matched yet.

So far straight out of the default V LOG L setting on the GH5s, it simply has a crisper and more digital look than the Varicam 35/LT. Shooting with the P. Lumix 10-25/1.7 lens. That lens is quite sharp at virtually all zoom ranges and from f/1.7 to 8. I have full confident shooting with that lens and not worrying about quality. I'm looking into soften the GH5S and put a slight blur or glow to the video to see if it'll help.

But for $1.7K for a new GH5S body, I'm not complaining. It costs the same as a new Express P2 512 Gb B-series card for the Varicam. Prices are way off from the GH to Varicam series. I bought 2 Amplim 256 SDXC UHS-II V60 card for about $360. Worked fine w/ GH5s@ALL-Intra 400 mode for far. Recorded non-stop for 1 hour and no buffering issues. Getting about 1h24m per card. 2h48m total. But crossing my fingers that data will be reliable after couple years of usage.

Get a Black Pro Mist filter to helptake the edge off.

 

[npm]

Just spent a day learning the GH5s. The only thing I noticed is that it has a sharp look for dark night and full sunny days. I'm used to the Varicam 35/HS/LT series. It has a organic look that's uniquely from the Varicam series. It may be wishful thinking that Panasonic will put 100% of their Varicam series secret sauce look into the GH5S. The V-LOG L colors have similar colorimetry but the distinctive look of the camera just can't be matched yet.

So far straight out of the default V LOG L setting on the GH5s, it simply has a crisper and more digital look than the Varicam 35/LT. Shooting with the P. Lumix 10-25/1.7 lens. That lens is quite sharp at virtually all zoom ranges and from f/1.7 to 8. I have full confident shooting with that lens and not worrying about quality. I'm looking into soften the GH5S and put a slight blur or glow to the video to see if it'll help.

But for $1.7K for a new GH5S body, I'm not complaining. It costs the same as a new Express P2 512 Gb B-series card for the Varicam. Prices are way off from the GH to Varicam series. I bought 2 Amplim 256 SDXC UHS-II V60 card for about $360. Worked fine w/ GH5s@ALL-Intra 400 mode for far. Recorded non-stop for 1 hour and no buffering issues. Getting about 1h24m per card. 2h48m total. But crossing my fingers that data will be reliable after couple years of usage.

I am between the GH5S and S1 currently. With the current price reduction, seems difficult to justify the GH5S other than that it's lighter.

 

[filmguy123]

Just spent a day learning the GH5s. The only thing I noticed is that it has a sharp look for dark night and full sunny days. I'm used to the Varicam 35/HS/LT series. It has a organic look that's uniquely from the Varicam series. It may be wishful thinking that Panasonic will put 100% of their Varicam series secret sauce look into the GH5S. The V-LOG L colors have similar colorimetry but the distinctive look of the camera just can't be matched yet. So far straight out of the default V LOG L setting on the GH5s, it simply has a crisper and more digital look than the Varicam 35/LT.

Yes, you are not alone. FWIW the S1 Series is better here. It has full v-gamut for the colors. It also has much less of a crispy look (especially the S1H with the OLPF). The M43 cameras apply more processing to the image to compensate for the smaller sensor, especially with native glass.

Shooting with the P. Lumix 10-25/1.7 lens. That lens is quite sharp at virtually all zoom ranges and from f/1.7 to 8

This is part of the problem. I would advise changing your lens out. I think you'll be much more pleased adapting some vintage Nikon (or other) glass, it helps a lot. The native MFT glass applies some digital sharpening that can't be turned off. Night and day difference. I've been pleased adapting vintage glass to the GHx series, or using the manual focus voigtlanders which bypass an electronic connections and thus corrections. The native MFT glass gives a very sharp and crispy look. Actually, for some projects I like that - really clinical corporate type look - but most of the time, not what I want. The S1 series doesn't exhibit this in my experience.

But for $1.7K for a new GH5S body, I'm not complaining.

I am not trying to dissuade you from the GH5s because it's a wonderful camera, especially when setup with the best settings and glass pairings, but for that price point I would consider test driving the S1 with some adapted glass as well (if you're within return policy).

I am between the GH5S and S1 currently. With the current price reduction, seems difficult to justify the GH5S other than that it's lighter.

If you can live without some of the UI video niceties of the S1H/GH5s, and with the larger form factor, the S1 is the way I would go personally.

 

[estarkey7]

I have been running some of my Canon FD glass on the S1H, and it's a sight to behold. This is my preferred set of lenses for any narrative or scripted work.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

I have been running some of my Canon FD glass on the S1H, and it's a sight to behold. This is my preferred set of lenses for any narrative or scripted work.

Any examples?

 

[estarkey7]

Any examples?

Nothing really worth showing. I'd love to setup a shoot with some lights so I can show it off properly, but most of my work has been corporate lately and they like it nice and clinical.