To shoot or not to shoot.

F

FiN

Member
I had a meeting with the owner of a media company who has been in the broadcast industry (tv and media) for approx. 15 years. He approached me with a project idea and asked if I could shoot and edit a short 2-3 min piece to make a presentation to a bank. I shoot with an HVX w/ fs-100 and edit with FCP on a mcbook pro. He asked me a price and I told him $60CDN/hour. He seemed blown away and told me he could get a guy with $100,000.00 worth of gear to come in for $60/hour. He told me he was thinking more in the lines of $100 for the finished product which shocked me. Soo I'm sitting here contemplating whether to take the job, which would probably lead to more jobs and POSSIBLY better pay. Or give him the choice of passing or paying more. I don't want people to get the impression that I will work for nothing, and get walked all over, but I also don't want to pass up the job.....:huh::huh::huh: any questions, comments, or concerns appreciated.

CHEERS:thumbup:
 
If you can afford it, take the job - but also take control. Tell him you will do him the favor, but it's for your reel, so you are investing in it as well. You expect your input to be honored (sometimes). If he walks all over you, you have the footage.
 
Percieved value is everything in most businesses. You're being taken advantage of in my opinion.

It's one thing to do things for cheap if it's a passion project, but it's another to be asked to do a professional or semi-professional project and then have to give away your time.

I learned one thing with my first feature and that's if you don't value yourself and put a $9.99 price on your movie, you're movie will be percieved as a $9.99 movie. Take the same movie and sell it for $17.99 and people will percieve it as being better.

The same goes for your video skills.

My .02
 
The guy thinks you're only worth $100 total, and you want to consider taking the job because it might lead to more jobs and more pay? At what, $100 per week (or however long it's going to take you to do this one?)

I say tell him to go get his "$100,000 worth of equipment" guy to come in and shoot it. And when he calls that guy and that guy tells him to stick it in his ear, you'll be ready to take the job. At $60/hour, like you already said.

By the way, $60 canadian is dirt cheap as-is. And if the guy's been in the media industry for 15 years, he knows that. So it looks to me like he's trying to use and abuse you since you're (obviously) new. So if you decide to try this gig for $100, because you want the experience, then recognize that no good will likely come from this guy, he's just using you; you might as well use him too to get some experience. But don't count on it leading to anything more; you can bet that if he got a job with a big budget he'd call his friend with the $100k of gear, and he's only gonna call you when he thinks he can get it done for $100.
 
FiN said:
Soo I'm sitting here contemplating whether to take the job, which would probably lead to more jobs and POSSIBLY better pay. CHEERS:thumbup:
Click to expand...

Oh, it might lead to more jobs but not more pay. Once they get you at a cutrate price they ***** and complain that you did such a great job before and how money is tight. Yadda, yadda.

Usually clients like that are a pain in the arse as well. They'll want this changed or that changed. By the time you're done you've lost money on the deal.

My advice is to tell the guy you're not interested. You're talent and time is worth more than that.
 
Tell him to knock himself out. If he can get $100,000 worth of equipment for the same $60 an hour, go for it. It's a very reasonable rate.
 
No way....if he's been around lomg enough he knows that $60.00 CDN/hr for that is a screaming deal.

Hell, I pay a freelance editors $55/hr US to cut projects. Just editing, no shooting.
 
I second all the comments. I would tell him that I can't do it for that rate and if he has somebody that can I would take them because it's an insane deal. I would also ask him for his guys number because you never know when you need a guy that has 100k worth of equipment and will work for peanuts :)
 
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I would also agree with all above. I haven't been doing video work long, but I've been in the website biz for over 6 years now and come accross the same from time to time. I charge what I charge and that's that. I'm not in it to make minimum wage.

I see you have an HVX, they don't come cheap. You have an investment in it and that investment will make you money, don't give it away, they didn't give you that HVX did they?

Tell him to get the $100,000 guy (if he even exists) for $100, and when he doesn't materialize, up your price to $100.00 per hour.:)
 
I agree with what everyone has posted above. This fellow has an idea, and ideas are free - a dime a dozen.

If he has a fellow who will work for free - one who has $100k of gear with the skills to use it, then more power to him. Except that he likely does not. That's why he's talking to you.

He likely leverages you against the next craftsperson he talks to - "...oh, I have a guy with the newest HD camera from Panasonic who really wants to do this thing".

I have conversations with these types weekly. Why should he pay to realize his vision? You should share his vision. Tell Mr. Idea, in the nicest way possible, that you'll have to take a pass and "good luck" with his endeavour. He'll protest. I guarantee it.

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I can agree and disagree with some of the comments here. Some projects can't afford our rates, but they are decent folks. So, sometimes I'll slide. But if they can afford my rates, i'll not even negotiate with them, just because they think they can treat me like cheap trash, because that is all you'll ever be to them.
 
Thanks for all of the input guys. Really helped me make my decision. I figure he can hire the guy with the $100,000 worth o equipment, or some kid with a handicam, or he can pay $60/hr for me.
 
I don't have a problem with doing projects for peanuts if I like the project. If somebody comes to me and says I need A+B+C but I don't really have the money that I know you are worth I will work with them but if they try to run a hussle on me and undercut what I know i'm worth then we have a problem
 
I think it is self evident to even this guy that $100 for a project is asking you to do it for free and the $100 is an attempt to cover SOME expenses. Media, gas, and deliverables for most projects should come out to about $100 for one man on a short project.

OTOH, $60/hour in the US is quite standard for most top-end videographers WITHOUT gear is an average city. The gear comes out to another $200 to $1000+ a day depending on what camera gear is being used. Not sure how that translates to Canadian but in USD you are coming in pretty high for someone without a ton of experience. How that all translates to Canadian or your local I do not know.

When hiring guys with 10+ years of experience $600-$700 a day before gear is expected (using a city like Seattle). If we are looking for a "cheaper" project and are hiring a guy with less experience then $400 and below can often be the going rate. There are many variables that effect which way that rate goes.

While not implying you should under sell yourself, you should also be aware of what the big boys in your area make and be prepared to work for less until you have that same level of experience.

If someone is looking to hire a guy with less experience then normal then I would also be prepared to work out a "package deal" that is not based on how long it actually takes but how long it would take the average shooter to finish the project; a price per minute of completed project deal.

One of the things you buy with an experienced shooter is consistency of time and quality. With a less experienced shooter it might take twice as long to get the same thing done as a guy who has been around the block. And your client would be getting screwed if he is paying standard day rates for someone who takes twice as long to complete it. Not a good investment on his part.

Don't work for peanuts but also be aware that everyone with a camera doesn't garner the same rate. The client is not hiring the camera he is hiring the experience.

Hope that helps
 
to do a project for $100, it would have to be a REALLY fun project that would look good on my reel, or I'd have to be REALLY desperate and not be making any more payments on my gear. 100 is pretty much an insult. 500 is an insult for most projects.
to make ends meet i use to deliver KFC, when i was new in the business. I made more then that in a night dropping off buckets of chicken. this guy has to be kidding...
 
Yeah, this definatly isn't going to be a fun project by any means, just some shots of a bank and some little interviews. I'm working part time at a snowmobile shop right now while i'm trying to get myself up and running, and to make payments on my gear. $100 just won't cut it. Now if it was a skiing project or something fun, count me in.
 
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