To Shoot in a Plane...
- Thread starter enterdcable
- Start date
pookie_old
Veteran
Re: To Shoot in a Plane...
I think, as enterdcable is brand new to aerial video, removing the door, while it will give the best field of view, will create the effect of terror tremors, multiplying the problems of creating a smooth shot...
Here's a shot of one of the rig's I'm using, I've tweaked mine up a bit from this shot (this is from the manufacture, with my DVX mounted).
I think, as enterdcable is brand new to aerial video, removing the door, while it will give the best field of view, will create the effect of terror tremors, multiplying the problems of creating a smooth shot...
Here's a shot of one of the rig's I'm using, I've tweaked mine up a bit from this shot (this is from the manufacture, with my DVX mounted).
enterdcable
Well-known member
Re: To Shoot in a Plane...
What a beautiful thing. You're all about aerial videography. I can imagine that beeing a wee bit less bumpy then my trembling hands going through nicotine withdrawal and having to pee real bad and sweating bullets wondering like hell why you ate the chili beans for lunch at Wendy's.
Terror tremors huh? And here I was planning on going for that in post.
What a beautiful thing. You're all about aerial videography. I can imagine that beeing a wee bit less bumpy then my trembling hands going through nicotine withdrawal and having to pee real bad and sweating bullets wondering like hell why you ate the chili beans for lunch at Wendy's.Terror tremors huh? And here I was planning on going for that in post.
enterdcable
Well-known member
Re: To Shoot in a Plane...
But are there like dummy proof cases for shooting in such environments. I don't want to hurt my baby.
For example, when my uncle took me fishing for the first time at a lake, on the first cast, I threw the pole 10 ft into the water. It was a very nice rod too. Holding down the lever, swinigng, and relasing the lever at the arc and letting the cast fly was all too much to do at once and accidently I let go....
What if a few thousand feet in the air, I see a flock of birds, I want to pan just right, trying to get over the tip of the body of the plane and of course the wind is blowing pretty hard... which brings me again to my original question: anything on the AG-DVXPARACHUTE ?
But are there like dummy proof cases for shooting in such environments. I don't want to hurt my baby.
For example, when my uncle took me fishing for the first time at a lake, on the first cast, I threw the pole 10 ft into the water. It was a very nice rod too. Holding down the lever, swinigng, and relasing the lever at the arc and letting the cast fly was all too much to do at once and accidently I let go....
What if a few thousand feet in the air, I see a flock of birds, I want to pan just right, trying to get over the tip of the body of the plane and of course the wind is blowing pretty hard... which brings me again to my original question: anything on the AG-DVXPARACHUTE ?
Re: To Shoot in a Plane...
Hey guys a quick comment. As part of a historical docu-drama I was shooting I had to shoot from a microlight (2-seater, one propellor engine, crammed as hell). Anyway I asked the pilot to remove the door, tied the camera to the plane via a loose rope and I hung out of the plane to get the shot. We tried the shot 4 times, and the last take was great. The final shot with composited 3d WWII aircraft flying past looks superb. Suggestion: The wind up there as you are hanging out the plane is tremendous! It actually blew my eye-cup off!! So make sure everything is secure...
Hey guys a quick comment. As part of a historical docu-drama I was shooting I had to shoot from a microlight (2-seater, one propellor engine, crammed as hell). Anyway I asked the pilot to remove the door, tied the camera to the plane via a loose rope and I hung out of the plane to get the shot. We tried the shot 4 times, and the last take was great. The final shot with composited 3d WWII aircraft flying past looks superb. Suggestion: The wind up there as you are hanging out the plane is tremendous! It actually blew my eye-cup off!! So make sure everything is secure...
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: To Shoot in a Plane...
[quote author=pookie link=board=news;num=1099078516;start=0#14 date=10/29/04 at 22:16:09]Unfortunatly, while something like the Cinesaddle really helps to save your arms, it offers no isolation to dampen vibration. [/quote]
Er, not sure you're looking at the right product... the CineSaddle has nothing to do with how you hold it... it's entirely designed specifically TO dampen vibration. It's a glorified beanbag filled with a million tiny styrofoam beads that dampen and absorb vibration. You strap the camera into the CineSaddle and hard-mount it to the plane or car, and the result is glass-smooth footage with no vibration at all.
I've got one, I've used it for several car shots, and the footage is completely smooth, no vibration, no shake.
[quote author=pookie link=board=news;num=1099078516;start=0#14 date=10/29/04 at 22:16:09]Unfortunatly, while something like the Cinesaddle really helps to save your arms, it offers no isolation to dampen vibration. [/quote]
Er, not sure you're looking at the right product... the CineSaddle has nothing to do with how you hold it... it's entirely designed specifically TO dampen vibration. It's a glorified beanbag filled with a million tiny styrofoam beads that dampen and absorb vibration. You strap the camera into the CineSaddle and hard-mount it to the plane or car, and the result is glass-smooth footage with no vibration at all.
I've got one, I've used it for several car shots, and the footage is completely smooth, no vibration, no shake.
pookie_old
Veteran
Re: To Shoot in a Plane...
Sorry Barry, while I don't doubt the Cinesaddle works whan attached to a car, the vibrations in aircraft are of a higher frequency, and the dynamic motions are entirely different. It would help to smooth out some shake, but there just isn't anything in the design to dampen motion on 3 axis.
I stand by my initial opinion.
Sorry Barry, while I don't doubt the Cinesaddle works whan attached to a car, the vibrations in aircraft are of a higher frequency, and the dynamic motions are entirely different. It would help to smooth out some shake, but there just isn't anything in the design to dampen motion on 3 axis.
I stand by my initial opinion.
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Re: To Shoot in a Plane...
I guess until it's tried we wont know.
On the website it says:
http://www.cinekinetic.com/invention/index.html
I've used he Cinesaddle on boats, helicopters, planes, trains and automobiles. The weight of it is...it doesn't weigh a thing. Its almost like fresh air.
Yet another testimonial says " I've done some great stuff at airports with aeroplanes"
Yet another says "I've had this brown bag strapped to boats, hanging out of helicopters, off the back of trucks, cars, rickshaws in Kathmandu - all sorts of ridiculously inconceivable locations."
Seems convincing enough. Dont dismiss something unless you can try it. Based on this testimony it might be worth looking into
I guess until it's tried we wont know.
On the website it says:
http://www.cinekinetic.com/invention/index.html
I've used he Cinesaddle on boats, helicopters, planes, trains and automobiles. The weight of it is...it doesn't weigh a thing. Its almost like fresh air.
Yet another testimonial says " I've done some great stuff at airports with aeroplanes"
Yet another says "I've had this brown bag strapped to boats, hanging out of helicopters, off the back of trucks, cars, rickshaws in Kathmandu - all sorts of ridiculously inconceivable locations."
Seems convincing enough. Dont dismiss something unless you can try it. Based on this testimony it might be worth looking into
Rogue Crew
Well-known member
Re: To Shoot in a Plane...
I'm finding it hard to imagine ANYTHING other than pilot, camerman and DVX inside of a C150/152 (enterdcable did say that it was a two-seater). Where even, would you put the CineSaddle? I guess you could open the right hand window and drape it over the sill with the DVX on top, but that seems kind of dodgy.
Pookie, I don't believe for a moment that the CineSaddle or even a human being would not dampen vibrations in a light aircraft. "Vibration" has only one source, the engine/propeller and if the vibration starts reaching your finger tips, you're already in deep **** for other reasons - never mind if you can film or not.
You can argue the merits of your rig vs. the CineSaddle or whatever, but the original question described turbulence, not vibration and the means to overcome it have been well described. I've had passengers take photos from the cockpit, a couple using telephoto and all with good results.
I'm finding it hard to imagine ANYTHING other than pilot, camerman and DVX inside of a C150/152 (enterdcable did say that it was a two-seater). Where even, would you put the CineSaddle? I guess you could open the right hand window and drape it over the sill with the DVX on top, but that seems kind of dodgy.
Pookie, I don't believe for a moment that the CineSaddle or even a human being would not dampen vibrations in a light aircraft. "Vibration" has only one source, the engine/propeller and if the vibration starts reaching your finger tips, you're already in deep **** for other reasons - never mind if you can film or not.
You can argue the merits of your rig vs. the CineSaddle or whatever, but the original question described turbulence, not vibration and the means to overcome it have been well described. I've had passengers take photos from the cockpit, a couple using telephoto and all with good results.
pookie_old
Veteran
Re: To Shoot in a Plane...
I did say "would help to smooth out some shake" and have not discounted the Cinesaddle entirely.
As this discussion has wandered slightly, I shall wander a little farther:
John, don't believe everything a website says, they also refer to it as a "tripod killer"...yet "Q: On your ads, you keep referring to the Cinesaddle as the tripod killer?
A: Yeah, that’s advertising!".....http://www.tvcameramen.com/lounge/iv_mikeyoung.htm
A grain of salt.
Rogue, I was also trying to figure out just where in a Cessna you would possibly find the space for something the size of a Cinesaddle, let alone get a shot out of a window.
As far as "I don't believe for a moment that the CineSaddle or even a human being would not dampen vibrations", yes both "can", but sucessfully is a different matter.
Unfortunatly your final point, "I've had passengers take photos from the cockpit", has a fatal flaw..."photos"....we're talking about shooting video, not stills at 1/1000+ of a second.
btw, vibration and turbulence cannot be seperated when shooting from aircraft, and any stabilization system must address both equally.
I did say "would help to smooth out some shake" and have not discounted the Cinesaddle entirely.
As this discussion has wandered slightly, I shall wander a little farther:
John, don't believe everything a website says, they also refer to it as a "tripod killer"...yet "Q: On your ads, you keep referring to the Cinesaddle as the tripod killer?
A: Yeah, that’s advertising!".....http://www.tvcameramen.com/lounge/iv_mikeyoung.htm
A grain of salt.
Rogue, I was also trying to figure out just where in a Cessna you would possibly find the space for something the size of a Cinesaddle, let alone get a shot out of a window.
As far as "I don't believe for a moment that the CineSaddle or even a human being would not dampen vibrations", yes both "can", but sucessfully is a different matter.
Unfortunatly your final point, "I've had passengers take photos from the cockpit", has a fatal flaw..."photos"....we're talking about shooting video, not stills at 1/1000+ of a second.
btw, vibration and turbulence cannot be seperated when shooting from aircraft, and any stabilization system must address both equally.
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Re: To Shoot in a Plane...
Nice paraphrase.
In it's entirety:
Q: On your ads, you keep referring to the Cinesaddle as the tripod killer?
A: Yeah, that’s advertising! We don’t try to kill the tripod, that’s not it at all, but this product really does kill the tripod. Many people have told me over the years that if they had the choice for only one product, the tripod or the Cinesaddle, they would choose the Cinesaddle over the tripod, so because of that, it was a phrase that worked very well and now that we are advertising it’s bringing in many sales.
Whatever the case Pookie, the idea is a valid one to explore. Dont dismiss it out of fiat. It's not about being right but about exploring the many possibilities that will work.
Nice paraphrase.
In it's entirety:
Q: On your ads, you keep referring to the Cinesaddle as the tripod killer?
A: Yeah, that’s advertising! We don’t try to kill the tripod, that’s not it at all, but this product really does kill the tripod. Many people have told me over the years that if they had the choice for only one product, the tripod or the Cinesaddle, they would choose the Cinesaddle over the tripod, so because of that, it was a phrase that worked very well and now that we are advertising it’s bringing in many sales.
Whatever the case Pookie, the idea is a valid one to explore. Dont dismiss it out of fiat. It's not about being right but about exploring the many possibilities that will work.
pookie_old
Veteran
Re: To Shoot in a Plane...
As I have said: "I did say "would help to smooth out some shake" and have not discounted the Cinesaddle entirely".
btw John, where in the world would you place the DVX mounted on a Cinesaddle when filming in a Cessna? I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I just can't figure out how you could use it in this situation. Given the cramped confines of a Cessna, it strikes me it's size would seriously compromise flight safety.
As I have said: "I did say "would help to smooth out some shake" and have not discounted the Cinesaddle entirely".
btw John, where in the world would you place the DVX mounted on a Cinesaddle when filming in a Cessna? I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I just can't figure out how you could use it in this situation. Given the cramped confines of a Cessna, it strikes me it's size would seriously compromise flight safety.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: To Shoot in a Plane...
It's very small actually. I've got the larger one and it's only a couple of cubic feet.
The key to it is you have to firmly strap it down somewhere. So you'd have to strap it to the open doorframe, or out an open window, or to the wing itself, something like that.
It's very small actually. I've got the larger one and it's only a couple of cubic feet.
The key to it is you have to firmly strap it down somewhere. So you'd have to strap it to the open doorframe, or out an open window, or to the wing itself, something like that.
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Re: To Shoot in a Plane...
Exactly.
The Cinesaddle (both versions are relatively small) is designed for this exact type of use. It's compact (compared to a hard mount), somewhat flexible (it's a freakin beanbag) and portable. The thing can be mounted using simple bed liner straps.
I'm sure with some creativity one could strap it down.
Exactly.
The Cinesaddle (both versions are relatively small) is designed for this exact type of use. It's compact (compared to a hard mount), somewhat flexible (it's a freakin beanbag) and portable. The thing can be mounted using simple bed liner straps.
I'm sure with some creativity one could strap it down.
HansK
Veteran
Re: To Shoot in a Plane...
Not sure if this article was mentioned:
Shooting From A Helicopter
http://www.dv.com/features/features_item.jhtml?category=Archive&articleId=23904820
Not sure if this article was mentioned:
Shooting From A Helicopter
http://www.dv.com/features/features_item.jhtml?category=Archive&articleId=23904820
pookie_old
Veteran
Re: To Shoot in a Plane...
John, Barry....have either of you ever sat in a Cessna? You seem to be unaware of it's lack of available space.
"or [strap it] to the wing itself", it is illegal to do this without using FAA approved attachments.
Sorry guy's, I'm sure the Cinesaddle is a brilliant brace, but simply not practicle for flight video. Before you say I'm still wrong, please go down to the airport with a Cinesaddle and DVX, sit in the passanger seat with someone in the pilot's seat, and take some pictures of how you can use it safely. BTW, it's not legal to mount any device on the dash.
I am perfectly willing to swallow my words.
John, Barry....have either of you ever sat in a Cessna? You seem to be unaware of it's lack of available space.
"or [strap it] to the wing itself", it is illegal to do this without using FAA approved attachments.
Sorry guy's, I'm sure the Cinesaddle is a brilliant brace, but simply not practicle for flight video. Before you say I'm still wrong, please go down to the airport with a Cinesaddle and DVX, sit in the passanger seat with someone in the pilot's seat, and take some pictures of how you can use it safely. BTW, it's not legal to mount any device on the dash.
I am perfectly willing to swallow my words.
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Re: To Shoot in a Plane...
You win baby. It's tired. Game over. Scoreboard.
You win baby. It's tired. Game over. Scoreboard.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: To Shoot in a Plane...
We did aerial shots from a Cessna once, but it was before getting the CineSaddle. Yes it was a very tight space. I don't know if there would be room to mount the camera, but then again a Cessna isn't the ideal aircraft for getting aerial shots in the first place, so I'm not sure exactly what the point would be -- I mean, you're not going to be fitting a tyler mount in there either, right? Unless you mount it to the wing strut, in which case you're probably back at the same question.
We did aerial shots from a Cessna once, but it was before getting the CineSaddle. Yes it was a very tight space. I don't know if there would be room to mount the camera, but then again a Cessna isn't the ideal aircraft for getting aerial shots in the first place, so I'm not sure exactly what the point would be -- I mean, you're not going to be fitting a tyler mount in there either, right? Unless you mount it to the wing strut, in which case you're probably back at the same question.
pookie_old
Veteran
Re: To Shoot in a Plane...
Acuually Barry, our friend enterdcable said he was going to shoot from a small Cessna, so that's the point of my question, as you were recommending the Cinesaddle for that use.
Now John....when did giving out correct and safe help become a competition,"You win baby. It's tired. Game over. Scoreboard."?
This thread was to help enterdcable shoot from a small plane, no?
Acuually Barry, our friend enterdcable said he was going to shoot from a small Cessna, so that's the point of my question, as you were recommending the Cinesaddle for that use.
Now John....when did giving out correct and safe help become a competition,"You win baby. It's tired. Game over. Scoreboard."?
This thread was to help enterdcable shoot from a small plane, no?
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: To Shoot in a Plane...
Oh - duh... that's what I get for not reading the thread in detail. You are correct, I just looked at the first post and he does indeed say cessna.
In the immortal words of Emily Latella: "Never mind."
Oh - duh... that's what I get for not reading the thread in detail. You are correct, I just looked at the first post and he does indeed say cessna.
In the immortal words of Emily Latella: "Never mind."