Tips for shooting in sand

puredrifting

puredrifting

Major Contributor
I am embarking on a long term shoot where we will be shooting at the beach quite often. I have two sets of legs, the Miller Solo DV legs in carbon and in aluminum. The legs may be submerged into the ocean in a foot or so of water occasionally and will be in the deep, soft, fine sand all of the time. The legs use manually rotating collars to lock the legs and the tripod feet are rotating to reveal steel spikes. If possible, I wouls rather not stick the legs in the deep sand as it can be tough to get all of the grains of sand out from the rotating parts. I know I could wrap the legs in cling film, black landscaping plastic (Visqueen), etc. But is there any pre made solution to keep the legs out of the sand without ripping or burrowing through the plastic? Ocean water and sand is just not a good thing to sink your legs into although it is less crucial if you have normal leg locks. I use the Miller Solo DV because I hate spreaders so I am set there but would like to avoid mucking up the legs with the sand inside the collars. Any ideas or solutions?

Do I just have to sacrifice a set of these legs to the ocean or can you think of a better solution? I will be using the 100-400mm IS II lens quite often so going handheld isn't an option most of the time.
 
I actually have a set of cheaper stunt legs that I use for stuff like this, and after being in the ocean I give them a thorough rinse in clean tapwater and let them air-dry. They've gotten a little sand inside, but they still work after several trips to the beach.

Take a look at the Benro 373T for $200. 75mm bowl, no spreader, but there is no listing on the load capacity of just the legs. It's 15.5lb with a head, which I imagine is limited by the capacity of the head.
 
Alex H. said:
I actually have a set of cheaper stunt legs that I use for stuff like this, and after being in the ocean I give them a thorough rinse in clean tapwater and let them air-dry. They've gotten a little sand inside, but they still work after several trips to the beach.

Take a look at the Benro 373T for $200. 75mm bowl, no spreader, but there is no listing on the load capacity of just the legs. It's 15.5lb with a head, which I imagine is limited by the capacity of the head.
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Thanks for the suggestion. My rig is 13.2 lbs with the 17-55 2.8 IS so if I subtract 22.8oz for that lens (1lb, 7oz) and add 3.5lbs for the 100-400 4.5-5.6 IS II, that puts me at 15.9lbs. Hmm, the price is right but capacity? I can lighten my rig by forgoing all of the handheld stuff (Tilta arm, Wooden grip relocator, Wooden 15mm to Arri rosette), etc. but then I won't be able to change lenses and go handheld, which this project will require. I can see the beauty of having two fully rigged camera bodies (one with the 100-400 on sticks for the long stuff and one rigged for handheld with the 17-55 or 18-135 STM IS) lately as most still pro photographers work with but I cannot afford it. As usual, if you can throw enough money at the problem, it's easy ;-)
 
I am liking the idea of a set of "sacrifical legs" for this project as long as they will not literally fall apart. Anyone ever try "E-Image" Tripods? https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1086394-REG/e_image_ga752_2_stage_aluminum_tripod.html I am sure these are Chinese junk but rated at 88lb capacity for less than $200.00. I just wonder if the leg locks will hold? Forgot that I will be using my Sachtler DV6SB head that itself weighs over 13lbs, plus my fully rigged C100 with the ZacutoRecoil/Wooden Camera stuff and the Ninja Blade is at 15lbs with the 100-400 F4.5-5.6 IS II lens, I will be approaching 30lbs. I may just order one of these to see how it does. I really dont want to dunk my $1,000.00 Miller Carbon legs in the ocean and sand. I think I will order these and will report back on how good or bad they are. As long as they are relatively stiff at a decent height, they will do the job. I used to use the junky Manfrotto/Bogen multi-tube legs at a company I worked at, and while they were junky, the junky part was mainly the head, the legs themselves did okay even with heavy cameras. I will do exactly what Alex does, literally put them in a 30 gallon tub of fresh water after the shoots, then rinse them with the hose and then hand dry. They are Aluminum and shouldn't rust, although I am sure the plastic bits won't last too long, but if I can get six months out of them?
 
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I dread the sand. I haven't done it. Sand gets everywhere. I'm not familiar with the tripod you are using, but would some PVC pipes with end-caps work? Just make up some pipes as long as you need and glue caps on the end. Slip those over the legs. Maybe drill a small hole in them and use some string to tie them up to the tripod so they stay with it when you lift the tripod to move it.
 
Have you ever stood in the ocean with any kind of swell coming in? That tripod is going to sink FAST. I'm not talking about big waves 1 footers will cause this in minutes if the sand is fine like you mentioned. I live at the beach and stick my feet in quite often. You stand there few waves come in and you are 4 inches deeper. Find something with a BIG footprint to slow this process.
 
I was going to say some kind of sacrificial legs. The salt water is (a) slightly acidic and (b) conducts electricity. What this means is that dissimilar metals will form a battery and this electrolytic action can destroy metal parts very quickly (brass props and iron boats). The only exception to this would be CF and good stainless fasteners on plastic leg locks. Maybe a good wooden tripod, but eventually the oil/paint/urethane on the legs will fail and the wood will swell and maybe warp when it dries. The cheapo shiny CF is better than the matte finish CF, they use more resin in the shiny cheap stuff or don't squeeze it out as much, either way the resin is better in the water than "raw" CF.

If you buy something beefy enough, it should be able to handle most of your body weight on it. If a tripod doesn't hold my weight for a few moments, it is either a very lightweight unit (not tested), or isn't something I buy. You'd be surprised at how many tripods pass this test.
 
jlpskydive said:
Have you ever stood in the ocean with any kind of swell coming in? That tripod is going to sink FAST. I'm not talking about big waves 1 footers will cause this in minutes if the sand is fine like you mentioned. I live at the beach and stick my feet in quite often. You stand there few waves come in and you are 4 inches deeper. Find something with a BIG footprint to slow this process.
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Yes, this would be in just a few inches of water, for a few minutes at a time, not deeper. I would never risk my rig in deeper than a few inch water in the surf. What it would most likely be is I would be shooting on dry sand, just a few feet from where the last water came up to on the beach and while shooting and looking through the eyepiece, I want to be covered in case the next wave comes up an extra few feet onto the beach. I'm not planning on wading into the actual surf to shoot, this is just insurance in case I miss a set that comes up the beach a few more feet. Always happens to me when shooting stills at the beach and I am in dry shoes, the next set comes in and soaks my shoes because I am not paying attention to the waterline, more to what I am shooting. I probably should be doing this in water shoes.
 
Greg_E said:
I was going to say some kind of sacrificial legs. The salt water is (a) slightly acidic and (b) conducts electricity. What this means is that dissimilar metals will form a battery and this electrolytic action can destroy metal parts very quickly (brass props and iron boats). The only exception to this would be CF and good stainless fasteners on plastic leg locks. Maybe a good wooden tripod, but eventually the oil/paint/urethane on the legs will fail and the wood will swell and maybe warp when it dries. The cheapo shiny CF is better than the matte finish CF, they use more resin in the shiny cheap stuff or don't squeeze it out as much, either way the resin is better in the water than "raw" CF.

If you buy something beefy enough, it should be able to handle most of your body weight on it. If a tripod doesn't hold my weight for a few moments, it is either a very lightweight unit (not tested), or isn't something I buy. You'd be surprised at how many tripods pass this test.
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Yep, I ordered the cheapo E-Image tripod for this reason. I figure it will rust or fall apart but if I can get a few months out of it before it does, well worth it. No way I want my good tripod anywhere near the beach sand and ocean. Now that I am thinking about it, I may rent a camera as well as the lens. Cumulatively, having your pro camera over or near saltwater is not good either. Fine for once in a while but all of that spray and heat from the sun are not good if you are shooting on or near the ocean a lot, which I will be doing. The E-Image I ordered is rated to 88lbs and has the double leg tubes. My rig and tripod head together are about 30lbs, hopefully it will be okay, I will be trying at home a lot before the beach shoots.
 
Does renting insurance cover accidental exposure to water? I'd check on that before renting because I know some policies will not cover it as they claim it is irresponsible.

Many years ago the company I worked for had a contract to provide equipment for dirt oval racing. When the contract was discussed there was an additional item built in to cover lens repair at the end of the season because we knew that each lens needed to be serviced from all the fine dirt/clay flying around from the cars. What a mess. Nothing like putting $100,000 50x zoom lenses at the end of the straight. From what I read, sand is the same way and it gets everywhere! Better check to make sure the insurance covers sand damage too.
 
The PVC tubing with glued on end caps would work well...I would tape the top of the tube openings to the legs to seal your lower legs from any sand or salt water getting in there due to splashing etc....the idea for sacrificial legs works too, as long as they don't fail you in the middle of a shoot....I've owned a couple of sailboats...the ocean is a brutal environment under any circumstances....any sailing supply store (say West Marine) sells a type of self healing rigging tape....it adheres to it self and stretches enormously...will completely isolate your lower legs from the elements...I would leave it on for the duration of the shoot...a bit more cumbersome, but the advantage of working with gear you know and can rely on.
 
Paul F said:
I dread the sand. I haven't done it. Sand gets everywhere. I'm not familiar with the tripod you are using, but would some PVC pipes with end-caps work? Just make up some pipes as long as you need and glue caps on the end. Slip those over the legs. Maybe drill a small hole in them and use some string to tie them up to the tripod so they stay with it when you lift the tripod to move it.
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Not a bad idea. If my plan A with the disposable E-Image tripod doesn't work out, I may try this. Have read some alarming reviews where guys are saying the tripod just fell apart? I am going to put it through it's paces several times before the first shoot at the beach. The pipe wouldn't even need to be very long, perhaps just 8" or 9" to just cover the bottom portion of the leg to keep it out of the sand and water?
 
Greg_E said:
Does renting insurance cover accidental exposure to water? I'd check on that before renting because I know some policies will not cover it as they claim it is irresponsible.

Many years ago the company I worked for had a contract to provide equipment for dirt oval racing. When the contract was discussed there was an additional item built in to cover lens repair at the end of the season because we knew that each lens needed to be serviced from all the fine dirt/clay flying around from the cars. What a mess. Nothing like putting $100,000 50x zoom lenses at the end of the straight. From what I read, sand is the same way and it gets everywhere! Better check to make sure the insurance covers sand damage too.
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Yes, these will all be major issues if the project becomes funded. We are shooting the sizzle first to get sponsors and fund raise so I just need to do three or four shoots for the sizzle. If the project becomes funded, we will spend a decent amount on a very comprehensive insurance policy because we already know that some cameras and gear are going to get destroyed during the shooting, it's inevitable. I am a scuba diver and I know what the ocean does to any gear and especially delicate electronics. My hope is that we can make it through the sizzle shoots without losing gear to the ocean. Definitely a high risk environment.
 
The trouble with insurance and corrosion is by the time the equipment fails, the policy will be long closed unless a tail is purchased. Say they purchase tail coverage for 12 months, and something fails due to corrosion at day 366, sorry man you are SOL. It would probably be better to have the producers supply a list of equipment which will be all their's when the production finishes. You might purchase the equipment list for them and include it with your charges. Either way, anything which is submerged or highly exposed to salt water will inevitably become a sacrificial anode.

Can you say rental?

Grant
 
If you go the PVC route I would go up all the way to just below the fully extended lower legs and seal with tape...sand and water splashing will get in everywhere....
 
Be a bit carefull with the pvc pipe concept. Remember, each tube will become a small boat that floats, or at least creates some lift. Not sure if the displacement of the tubes would make things unstable, but I'd approach this with caution.

It would be easy to figure the lift: calculate the volume of water displaced by the interior volume of the tube. The weight of the water displaced will be the very approximate amount of lift. This doesn't account for either depth or displacement of the pipe itself.

I was shouldn't have been surprised by this idea.. I purchased an underwater housing to shoot some footage while standing in a river. I ended up sandbagging the housing to get it below the surface. It was surprising how much force it took.
 
Yes, I have been a scuba diver for quite a while. Everything we take underwater is ideally neutrally buoyant as we are ourselves as divers when our BC is properly inflated. Especially things like cameras in housings, flashes and video lights. You suck down a lot more air if you are constantly fighting something that floats up or sinks.
 
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